The news is going around that our pal James Arthur Ray has two dead participants and 19 hospitalized after a 2-hour long sweat in Sedona, AZ. Some partipants paid up to $9000 for this “Spiritual Warrior Event.” From the AP release:
Many people began feeling ill after about two hours in the sweat box, emerging lightheaded and weak, said Verde Valley Fire District Chief Jerry Doerksen.
Two hours in a sweat lodge!? This is insane. (UPDATE: I’ve been informed–by my girlfriend–that 2 hours or even much longer is commonplace for sweats. I still think this is insane.) I remember doing a sweat with the Boy Scouts, and it was about 15 minutes before we got out and dumped ourselves with cold water. Ever spent 2 hours in a sauna with no break?
But this is the logic of these kinds of workshops–break you down to build you up. Tony Robbins’ Unleash the Power Within is very similar–long hours, no breaks, constant full-on exercises. While there is usually no explicit instruction that you must remain with the group, the pressure to do so can be enormous even when way beyond your limits.
I’m guessing that these deaths and injuries were not a result of “carbon monoxide” (which tested negatively) but intense psychological pressure to remain in a dangerous situation far beyond the limits of safety and sanity.
I know several people who have gone to the hospital for various reasons after “large group awareness trainings” such as Ray’s “Spiritual Warrior Event.” Many people online have complained of received mild to moderate burns on their feet after Tony Robbins’ firewalk, for example. It’s time we brought these gurus to justice and demanded that personal change workshops be safe for all.
When something goes wrong in such a seminar due to it being overly intense and dangerous, usually the victims are blamed for “not taking 100% responsibility,” thus dodging the responsibility of the seminar leaders. Personally, I think we should hold James Arthur Ray 100% personally responsible for the death of these two seminar participants, up to and including going to jail.
Seminar leaders are responsible for making their workshops both effective and safe for all. There are many safe and gentle methods and techniques for powerful change that have little-to-no risk, and do not require having a breakdown in order to have a breakthrough. It is long past time that we put limits on dangerous techniques for change and promoted safe and effective ones.
UPDATE 6:56pm 10/9/09
James Ray has deleted all of his recent tweets that had to do with the Spiritual Warrior Event or death. I think these tweets are interesting and instructive, given the context. Luckily, they are all still available in search.twitter.com.
These were posted on JamesARay’s Twitter account before and during the Spiritual Warrior Event (shown from oldest to newest, the opposite order as to how things appear on Twitter):
James Arthur Ray has an opportunity in this terrible situation to be a spiritual warrior and take full responsibility. Rise up to the challenge, Mr. Ray. It’s time for a new paradigm in personal change workshops, don’t you think?
UPDATE #2, 7:57pm 10/9/09
The news is breaking all over the web. Here’s a great little piece about James’ Ray’s Death Lodge, where we learn that some of the participants lack health insurance. 
So in addition to the almost $10,000 ticket price, expect another $10,000 in medical bills. I smell class-action lawsuit.
Here’s a slideshow from ABC news in Arizona, with a recording of the 911 call, and a short video (upper right). Two people were not breathing, and then on a later call there were three people not breathing. Just awful. Why didn’t they catch this earlier?
$9695 each times 64 people = $620,480. James A Ray could have easily afforded to have medical staff on hand.
Here’s some sales copy from James A Ray’s site (before they take it down):
You’ll accelerate the releasing of your limitations and push yourself past your self-imposed and conditioned borders (no more coloring inside the lines)…
The excessive focus on pushing past your boundaries (treating inner objections as “resistance”) is in my opinion what creates the conditions for dangerous approaches to personal change.
You’ll define and enforce your own boundaries—without someone else telling you what they should be…
Clearly this did not happen on this retreat, or those who were feeling ill would have simply stepped out of the sweat lodge. The psychological pressure to conform is often enormous in such workshops, and individual boundary-setting is usually discouraged.
You’ll experience, at the spiritual level, the ancient methodologies of Samurai Warriors; and gain a true understanding of the authority and strength that come from a life of honor…
Again, this is an opportunity for James A Ray to act with honor in the face of death. Deleting Twitter posts to cover your tracks is a bad start. And the patriarchal hypermasculine metaphor of the samurai again shows its shadow in the death and injury of these workshop participants.
The investment is ONLY $9695 per person.
This was an advanced, 6-day seminar for people who had already attended one of James Arthur Ray’s introductory workshops. The structure appears to be the same as Tony Robbins’ workshops–get them in for free or cheap for the first seminar which is structured to be one big sales pitch for the very expensive advanced course. Caveat emptor!
UPDATE #3
Techcrunch has picked up the story, due to the issue of the deleted Tweets. I think we should read this as the Law of Attraction in action—dishonorable acts of cowardice actually attract more attention than transparency and honesty, a lesson for us all.
UPDATE #4
Please also read my followup post to this one, entitled The Dark Side of The Secret: Reading James Arthur Ray’s Sweat Lodge Disaster through a Magickal Lens.
UPDATE #5
The New York Times has picked up the story (requires login). Here’s a quote:
Joseph Bruchac, an expert on Native American traditions and author of “The Native American Sweat Lodge,” said that number far surpassed the 8 to 12 typically present at such a rite. “It means that all these people are fighting for the same oxygen,” he said.
…
Traditional lodges are usually made of willow branches and covered in canvas or animal skins, and are not meant to be air-tight. The authorities said that the lodge at Angel Valley was covered in plastic and blankets.
…
Questions have also arisen about the length of time the people were in the lodge — about two hours. A ceremony usually lasts no more than an hour, Mr. Bruchac said.
UPDATE #6
Wonderful news! This post has been linked to from Steve Pavlina’s forums by “Antarananda,” the very forums I was banned from (by Pavlina himself) for questioning the gurus. If anyone wants to log into the forums and thank Antarananda for me, I would very much appreciate that.
UPDATE #7
AOL has a new article giving some back story on the two who died. The woman, aged 38, “was an avid surfer and hiker who was ‘in top shape,’ took self-improvement seriously and had a passion for art, a family spokesman said.”
Some other relevant quotations from the article:
Nineteen other people were taken to hospitals, suffering from burns, dehydration, respiratory arrest, kidney failure or elevated body temperature. Most were soon released, but one remained in critical condition Saturday.
Brown had no pre-existing health conditions that would have kept her from participating in an otherwise safe activity, said cousin and family spokesman Tom McFeeley. That two people died and 19 others became ill at the Angel Valley Retreat Center indicates that “something went horribly wrong.”
…
Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh said Saturday that his detectives were focusing on self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray and his staff as they try to determine if criminal negligence played a role. Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state.“We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals,” Waugh said. He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed.
…
On Saturday, Amayra Hamilton said Ray has held the event at the resort for seven years, and there never have been any problems.
…
Every 15 minutes, a flap was raised to allow more volcanic rocks the size of cantaloupes to be brought inside.Authorities said participants were highly encouraged but not forced to remain in the sweat lodge for the entire time.
…
The participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness, then ate a breakfast buffet Thursday morning. After various seminars, they entered the sweat lodge lightly dressed at 3 p.m.
…
Sheriff’s Lt. David Rhodes said authorities were checking whether there was a lag time between the first signs of medical distress and the emergency call.
I am especially concerned that participants had fasted for 36 hours and had just broken their fast. I recently tried fasting for 36 hours. The first 24 were wonderful, then I started going into a kind of toxic shock, feeling nauseous like I had the flu (which is apparently common), so I broke the fast at about 36 hours. I wasn’t ill, but it did take about 24 more hours to feel normal again. I would have had a very difficult time doing anything strenuous, let alone a two hour sweat. A friend who fasts regularly says that one’s first fast can be the most challenging, but that they can get easier over time. For anyone fasting for the first time, this fast alone could have been quite challenging. If it had only been a two hour sweat, the risks would have been greatly reduced.
And again, “highly encouraged” to stay within the sweat lodge is almost certainly an understatement of the intense psychological pressure most participants in such an event feel to conform to group norms. I think participants in seminars should be “highly encouraged” to speak up when they feel that a process is too much for them. In my direct experience on both my own path and in facilitating change with others, there is no sane reason to push yourself or anyone else so close to death in order to engage in conscious transformation.
UPDATE #8, 10/13/09
The NY Times has an update. Here are some relevant quotations:
Tom McFeeley, Brown’s cousin and family spokesman, called on Ray to assure that the participants ”were not mistreated and not put in a reckless situation.
…
McFeeley also said he is concerned that Ray exhibited a ”godlike complex” during the event that might have kept people from opting out of activities Ray acknowledged could cause ”physical, emotional, financial or other injuries.””We need to look at this way beyond the sweat lodge,” McFeeley said. ”If we could understand minute by minute what happened this week, I think we’ll get a much greater view on what kind of event this was and the level of danger that existed.”
This is exactly my concern as well. It’s not just the sweat lodge, but the intense days leading up to the lodge, as well as the meglomania that often occurs amongst such guru figures which leads to unsafe conditions. I’ve seen this again, and again, and again.
Fire department reports released Tuesday show the incident wasn’t the first involving a sweat lodge ceremony at the resort. Verde Valley Fire Chief Jerry Doerksen said his department responded to a 911 call in October 2005 about a person who was unconscious after being in a sweat lodge.
Angel Valley resort owner Amayra Hamilton confirmed that Ray was leading the sweat ceremony during the 2005 event. Ray’s spokesman declined to comment.
WOW! Ray almost killed somebody in 2005, but wasn’t stopped. This is exactly what I’ve been attempting to warn people about with my guru criticism on this blog and elsewhere.
Ray’s spokesman, Howard Bragman, has said Ray would speak when it’s appropriate. He declined Tuesday to address the Brown family’s concerns.
”The facts are going to come out,” he said. ”We’re not going to conduct our investigation in the media. We’re going to let the investigative bodies do their jobs.”
Ray is still not talking to police, nor the media, but gave a talk to 200 people (I’m guessing he’s trying to stay on his seminar schedule). He says he’s not going to conduct his investigation in the media, but won’t conduct his investigation with the police either. Again, what would a true spiritual warrior do, Mr. Ray?
A statement released by the family of Liz Neuman, who remains in critical condition at the Flagstaff Medical Center, said she is in a coma and doctors are working to stabilize damage to multiple organs
In addition to the other two dead, there is another woman in a coma!
Two others remained hospitalized. Fire officials say the victims exhibited symptoms ranging from dehydration to kidney failure after sitting in the sweat lodge.
Two dead, one in a coma, two more hospitalized. Do they have health insurance? Why kidney failure?
Officials say the sweat lodge, built specifically for the five-day retreat, lacked the necessary building permit.
UPDATE #9
Here’s a great 90 minute podcast about the event, with an interview with someone named Shawna who was there, helping with the fire (thanks to commenter “Singularity” for the link).
Here are my rough notes from the podcast (so you don’t have to listen to the full 90 minutes unless you want to):
Shawna has done many sweats in the past. She was invited to help with the fire for the sweat. When Shawna arrived at the location, her friend who had invited her was very upset and said “something went terribly, terribly wrong.” She ran to the sweatlodge. There were people lying in the dirt and sand around the lodge, with other people attending to them.
There was a woman in a golf cart to take her to her lodging area because she was cold and they wanted to get her into her sleeping bag. The woman started to speak in a very bizarre way, and had a very blank look, went into seizures with foam coming out of her mouth. (FROM DUFF: This is exactly what I’ve observed from someone very close to me after an overly intense personal growth workshop.)
A paramedic came to get her vitals. Shawna spent an hour or two holding her down so that she didn’t hurt herself or pull out the IV the paramedics put in there.
2 hours later, the other people still looked like they had suffered from physical trauma, shivering in blankets.
One woman told Shawna her story, she passed out in the sweat lodge. She was in the very back of the sweat lodge. Most of the people who ended up with a severe trauma were in the back of the sweat lodge.
When the door was being opened in the lodge to put in more rocks, air rushes in. She was so far in the back and the door was so small, she never felt any relief, no fresh air. This is very unusual, probably unintended. Usually opening the door, everyone feels some fresh air before the next round. She wondered if she was even breathing any oxygen by the end.
2 days prior attendees had gone into a vision quest where they were encouraged to fast and not drink any water. Sedona is a desert, an extremely dry climate. Participants were already dehydrated and then sweating it out.
That morning they had a breakfast and encouraged to hydrate, had about 4 hours to rehydrate and get nutrition in them. In Shawna’s opinion, the sweat was way too long, should be 4 rounds not 6.
People were throwing up water.
Shawna prepared to leave, Sheriff asked her to stay and took a small statement.
She shared with her husband that she was seeing people dead, passed out, etc. when “relief was on the other side of that door.” One man said “yea, I wimped out, I got out on the 5th door…I wasn’t playing full on.” This man had shamed himself, felt like he was letting Ray down. Shawna defended him as maintaining his own limits, speaking up to authority. This man questioned Ray’s authority and took care of himself, Shawna told him. And then he took that in and said “and thank God I did that, because I was well enough to carry the other people out.”
(FROM DUFF: Tony Robbins uses the phrase “play full out,” and his community enforces conformity towards excessive personal boundary crossing with this phrase.)
Many people had passed out in the sweatlodge.
The whole point of the conversation is checking in with yourself in any situation where there is an authority figure, says the show host.
When Shawna told her husband had happened, he said, “well, I know that you would have questioned Ray” she started crying and said “would I have? Would I have tried to impress him by ‘playing full on’?”
Shawna said she personally might have been one of those people who did not take care of herself. Shawna is a therapist, a motivational speaker, and (until recently) was a fan of James Ray. Shawna was humbled to be completely and totally responsible to the people she serves.
Shawna still recommends all the gurus CDs and books and seminars, and encourages others to self-searching, but does not “allow someone to have my answers.”
One of James Ray’s quotes is “your life begins at the end of my comfort zone.” Shawna still believes this, and people got pushed too far. Shawna draws the line with pushing myself, not for other people’s approval.
James Ray is a good example of what to look for. His message was “you’re not going to get this message somewhere else,” didn’t give credit to other teachers.
Power implies responsibility. Shawna can feel judgment from James Ray.
Shawna interviews Jim Tree, a Native American man who does ceremonies. Many reactions from the community–not a sweat lodge ceremony, but a huge aberration from what a Native American sweat lodge is like. He’s never seen more than 20 people at a lodge.
Years of training to be sensitive to everyone in the lodge. Sweat lodge construction has certain materials–red willow branches for frame. There is a reason for this. Plastic tarps trap in gases.
Time to talk about sweats, results, etc. What is this event/ceremony? What is the fruit? Rebirth, cleansing, regeneration.
We do fast the day of the sweat, but don’t fast from water. Start hydrating all day of sweat.
“This was a recipe for disaster.”
“Usually people prepare for a year for a vision quest.”
The elders have been warning people. Apparently the elders went to Ray and confronted him and told him that he shouldn’t be doing this, that “you’re hurting people.” Most every time people have been nauseous and sick for the six or seven years Ray has been doing this event.
If you paid some money for a weekend seminar and they said you’d be a Jewish rabbi after the weekend ended, you’d find it ridiculous. We sample all these different nature-based religions, starving for spirituality (including Native Americans on the reservation). When we find something that feeds that need, we jump right into it without questioning.
The number one thing about a sweatlodge is that you humble yourself. You crawl on the ground to get it. If the lodge leader is exhibiting a bit ego, that’s a warning sign.
“We do not charge for our ceremonies.” The person doing that is supported within native culture–fed, travel paid for, etc.
“You physically cannot build a lodge that big out of the materials we use.”
Our people have been taught to keep their mouths shut. Less than 20 years ago, it was illegal to do a sweatlodge. Before that, medicine people were put in an insane asylum. “It’s not that time anymore.”
Jim Tree encourages people to turn this event into an opportunity to talk openly about sweat lodges, explore the significance of all the aspects of the ritual, etc.
Shawna answers questions: there was a nurse there, she was outside the lodge. Shawna asks if anyone took a psych or health evaluation on anybody? She heard in return from a woman was her first and last name and her date of birth, so probably not.
Caller had been to other James Arthur Ray events, this was the final event in a series of seminars.
Jim Tree—3 types of people shouldn’t be in a lodge: pregnant, high blood pressure, heart history. The only way you can tell is do a health history. Also, woman who died was in perfect physical health.
Jim was stopped from doing lodges after a year from the elders and trained more to sense the condition of people in the lodge.
During the 5th or 6th run, people were calling out to be let out and were denied. “That would never happen” in Jim’s tradition.
Pouring the water is gently sprinkled on the stones to precisely control it. Ray poured water from the bucket directly onto the stones, creates an uncontrollable amount of heat.
Jim would be glad to have Ray call him and talk to him about all of this.
Shawna originally saw James Ray on the Secret, used “the secret” to meet James Ray, met him 3 weeks later at a restaurant.
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Tags: James Arthur Ray, James Ray, Spiritual Warrior, Spiritual Warrior Event, Tony Robbins
[...] he allowed fear to rule his life. He ran away from the scene and deleted posts about the event on Twitter . While we cannot know what was, or is, in his heart, what we can see is that his actions after the [...]
[...] mentioned his shenanigans BEFORE these terrible harms occurred like my fellow lie fighters Duff McDuffee & Cosmic Connie both did. But once you’re in the New York Times with a body count [...]
Awesome job Duff, as usual this is great coverage on an area that never gets any real attention. I remember hearing that at least 1 person had died after a similar Tony Robbins event ($10,000 to attend) where he promoted fasting and pushed an alternative health regiment on people who had no business doing it, without any medical expertise whatsoever. The story never made it out into the press (perhaps it happened in fiji or was squashed with the typical out-of-court settlement) – either way, none of these guys have the specific background training to be providing these kinds of experiences. Sadly for the people who have lost their lives in pursuit of the promise of a larger life, James Ray is a perfect example of self-created baby guru's who think they have the answers and are ready to sell you yours, despite having no real background or training. My prayers go out to the families of those who perished in this totally preventable tragedy.
Robert unless you are sure of what you are talking about …..The" I heard about Tony Robbins" Is unfair to Tony Robbins
What you refer to happen in Mauii ..in a training many years ago
A man had a heart attack in the training ……But Tony left the seminar of a thousand people immediatly …gave the seminar to his wife to finish leading the event and Tony went in the embulance with him …went to the hospital with him untill the man recuperated …Big difference
Then Arthur who left the event without even visiting the critical patient in the hospital
…refusing to talk to the law representatives
"I am going to meditate in seclusion he said " WHat a creep …a heartless SOB
A few postings have use the name of Tony Robbins …..as he was teaching something similar to Arthur ………
NO NO NO Tony teach mind stuff NLP HYPNOSIS advance psychology
$10,000 to learn advance psychology stuff is very different than $10,000 for spiritual
mombo jumbo stolen from native american
Tony never set himself as a spiritual teacher as Arthur does.
Have you heard of Oneness University – a Tony Robbins religion that proposes to pass on the spiritual awakening as he lays his big hands on your head in a seminar. And yup – it's nearly $10,000 to learn how to be a "blessing giver" and pass-on spiritual enlightenment yourself – you can even charge for it too! So, yes, tony robbins has set himself up as a spiritual teacher – do your research henry, you might be surprised at what your hero has been up to.
And do you know where Tony picked up the supposed ability to transmit the "Oneness blessing"? From none other than Kalki "Bhagavan", that big spiritual fraud and scam artist from India. Oneness university isn't a Robbins religion – it was devised by that Kalki clown. Look him up on guruphiliac.
Anyway whats good about this event?? …..maybee a wake up call
that will put a stop to James Ray fucking with people minds and hearts for ever .
I do not recall the movie name …but once Mickey mouse was given a magic wand
and a magic hat ………and he created a complete desaster because he did not know how to deal with magic .
I have witness truth magic when with genuine Shaman from the Lakota traditions including miraculous and spontanious healing in a matter of hours ….
But I would never set myself up as a shaman …..
These are powerfull energies that when mishandle can be of frightfull consequenses
James Ray …..is a bit like Mickey mouse playing with great magic …
Those deaths are the direct result of the misuse of those sacred energies
The Sorcerer's Apprentice
from Fantasia
THANKS SUE The Sorcerer’s Apprentice
WE know about the apprentice…
But the Sorcerer??
Why isn't anyone calling it a cult? A friend who follows him called the current circumstance a "co creation challenge." Ray's been working feverishly to shore up all his minions for the past couple days. Hope this shuts this evil manipulator up.
Here's a link to the anti-cult forum Rick Ross that covers the issue very well:
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,77484
(CNN) — An investigation into the deaths of two people who spent up to two hours inside a “sweat lodge” at an Arizona retreat last week has been elevated from an accidental death investigation to a homicide inquiry, Yavapai County Sheriff Steve Waugh told reporters Thursday.
Thank you. Yes, it's a cult.
"Remember all that we've learned and experienced and knowing by law of the universe that out of every apparent chaos comes a greater state of order, an order that never existed prior to the chaos," he said, after asking those on the conference call to imagine themselves standing in a prayer circle.
This is from a transcript found on fox news of Arthur Ray teleconference with some of the participants of the of the desaster sweat lodge a few days ago .
What a bunch of crap …..there will be no greater state of order for the 2 people that are dead ….they are dead ….young …beautifull and loved and by their famaly .
one caller identified as Brent. "I think that the people that left, I do believe they made their own choices, whether on this level or the next, but I do feel really for the families."
McFeeley(spokeperson for the Brown famaly ) said the comments on the call solidify his belief that Ray is controlling the people involved in his self-help program.
"There were reasonable people at this event, and it shows the power one man can have when you combine physical and mental mistreatment," McFeeley said. "Everything in this retreat seems to have been taken too far, and those statements were hurtful to hear and probably more hurtful to communicate them to the family last night."
"Remember all that we've learned and experienced and knowing by law of the universe that out of every apparent chaos comes a greater state of order, an order that never existed prior to the chaos," he said, after asking those on the conference call to imagine themselves standing in a prayer circle.
from atranscrip of a teleconference after the fact with about 12 people who attended the sweat ………………………..What a bunch of New Age crap ….
those 2 people will not have a greater state of order they are dead
You are totally right, Henry. And from the looks of it, Ray is running from responsibility and the law.
[...] know from TechCrunch :: And more interestingly from Duff :: That Ray was tweeting strangely ominous things during the sweat lodge events :: Which he then [...]
I am do glad that there not one tribal member from a northern plains native tribe. The family would have been shamed. We always ask who are your elders, what is your family name. Who are your grandparents. James Arthur Ray wouldn’t last a second in a room full of traditional tribal member. Wade Crowe realtion to Sam Crowe, They Drag Him, Young Girl, Crooked and Wanjica the One.
From the web site twitter of James Arthur Ray
"All is always & only perfection. Whether we recognize it or not. All apparent imperfection arises from a limitaion" (go tellt hat to the famalies of the 2 dead participants)
And Colleen Conaway famaly
Who will stend up and stop this guy …advertising more events in the next few weeks
More BS from J.A.R
[...] 2 Sweat Lodge Deaths at James Arthur Ray retreat [...]
[...] Beyond Growth’s post informs us that James Ray deleted his Twitter posts from during the Spiritual Warrior event, though you can still find some at search.twitter.com. I’m using Beyond Growth’s screen shot, because some of these Twitters are now gone from search. And they are worth seeing as they point to the mindset of James Ray during the event. [...]
''YOUR ACTIONS OFTEN SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS ''
From James Ray Tweter …day 4 of the spiritual warrior desaster
I've participated in sweat lodge ceremonies many, many times. We've never built a sweat lodge with plastic covering. We never stayed in a sweat lodge more than 1 hour. We never put more than 12 people in at a time. The leader of the sweat was always a "pipe carrier" meaning, he/she knew what they were doing. We were never under pressure to go beyond our personal limits – meaning – if we felt good, we continued, if we didn't feel good, we got out. Using the sweat lodge is a personal spiritual journey – it has nothing to do with anyone else in the lodge.
Thank you for your extensive gathering of the news. Great job.
I am most concerned that James Ray left the state immediately. As the host of the event, he should have made himself available to the authorities and to his guests. I am appalled that he left.
Patricia
This new account is truly shocking. If it is all true, James Ray is starting to look like a very dangerous man, an outright sociopath, and needs to be stopped from recruiting new victims immediately.
http://tinyurl.com/yfy7e7r
http://www.examiner.com/x-11245-Philadelphia-Spec…
There is more info at these links.
James Ray death waiver http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,77484#msg-77484
Colleen Conaway death at James Ray event in San Diego http://www.saltydroid.info/who-killed-colleen-conaway/
Thank you Sophie for the link
This is even more shoking to hear that no refunds had been offer to all these people that where participants and had to go to the hospitals…..
Nor offer to pay for the hospital bills
And JamesRay is advertising more seminars on his web site …
My God ….who will stop this man …Sheriff hurry up please
I am a student of Stanislav Grof and it is despicable to hear that participants had to buy a $175 book and Cd from Dr Grof to take part in this desaster seminar
The man as no shame to use good name of dr Groff as part of his mombo jumbo
specualtion ….I have advise the Dr Groff organisation of the gross mishandling of his name ……
Grof seems like a good guy to me. When someone close to me had a "spiritual emergency" after a large group awareness training not unlike Ray's, his book of the same title was useful for understanding what happened.
I seriously believe Dr. Grof had no knowledge his work was being used in conjunction with something like this, its a shame that his work/name could be thrown about in the media because of this Loon's shenanigans
I think ol "Secret" Ray, is right about the "positive outcome" for the greater good, however, alot of people are going to WAKE UP to the utter desperation that we, as humans will go to become "Sheeple" in an attempt to say "I Found It"
An Arizona homicide investigation now includes three deaths after a Minnesota woman died more than a week after participating in a spiritual cleansing exercise at an Arizona sweat lodge.
Liz Neuman, 49, of Minnesota died Saturday at a Flagstaff hospital after being in a coma, her family told MyFox Phoenix. Neuman had suffered organ damage as a result of the Oct. 8 event.
This last victims had done all of James Ray seminars we are told
James Ray is a trying to exploit people in the very same manners as cult leaders have done …get them to do one seminars then convince the participants
that the more money and time you pour in the cult leader pocket …more spiritual
emencipation you will experience ….
Ray is still out there recruting
Halei……Dr Grof now does know about how his work as been misuse in James Ray __seminars ……I just got confirmation from his organisation….__I have learn that one of the key phrase of James Ray is to go at it "full on "__meaning that his students had to do whathever process he was suggesting and .they must do it "full on " One of the participant to that crazy sweat dome share that he was kind of a shame that he had go out of the sweat lodge at the 5th round …instead of whaiting at the end of the 6 round as recommended by James Ray ….He said to he was not playing __"full on "…..like many there that day he did not whant to desapoint the cult leader ….by getting out of that cooking dome because he was most unconfortable.__
But then he was instrumental in pulling people that where unconcious out of the sweat dome and probably save several lifes
Considering that Steve Pavlina indirectly endorsed Ray's programs on his website two years back (interview here: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2007/02/james-ra… ), and the fact that Pavlina has been a pretty active and prominent voice in the Personal Develpment /blogger field, I find it odd that he's been silent about the whole debacle. Not a word on his forums, or blog, or twitter. Could it be because it is bad publicity for his own nascent live workshop business, which he has started recently?
Interestingly, Steve Pavlina also now belongs to the closed-to-public club founded by 40 odd self-help gurus, including Ray, http://www.transformationalleadershipcouncil.com/
Interesting indeed. Thanks for the link to the Transformational Leadership Council.
If you don't already know, Pavlina banned me from his forums for linking to my article "The Unquestioned Gurus and the Religion of the Self," even though I did not ever directly criticize his work in my article.
An old thread got revived on the Steve Pavlina forum, and after reading his comment, I have to say he has intact a sense of ethics and responsibility to his readers, unlike Joe Vitale. Here's what he said back in June:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/business-finan…
Ray broke down in tears as he addressed the deaths.
“This is the most difficult time I’ve ever faced,” Ray told the crowd of about 200. “I don’t know how to deal with it really.”(last public apperance)
The LAW OF ATTRACTION big fuck up……Mr Ray
So sure of himself when he sell his pich $10,000 for somthing that will increase the quality of the participant life …..a WOW experience he said
So sure of himself when he pack the plastic cover sweat dome with 60 people
So sure of himself when asking participants to fast 2 days ..no food no wather
You ran away in fear of the consequenses …nit even visiting people at the hospital
you really did not know how to deal with it then and les now,
The creator is helping to reveal your deep confusion
karma is caching up quick
“This is the most difficult time I’ve ever faced,” Ray told the crowd of about 200. “I don’t know how to deal with it really.”
Yep, it's still all about him.
[...] I did not think this. My heart goes out to the families left behind by this terrible tragedy: James Arthur Ray’s Spiritual Warrior Event Kills 2, Injures 19 in Sweat Lodge Fiasco Sweat Lodge Death Turns To Self-Help Guru James Arthhur [...]
The death of Colleen Conaway at a James Arthur Ray seminar in July 2009 is in the news.
James Arthur Ray’s past contains serious injuries and suicides at seminars.
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,77450,77728#msg-77728
the guy is finis'!!! Civily and I'm sure criminally, like Michael, negligent homicide….but , again, I think of his comment "the greater good to come out of this"
Nobody knows "IT", Nobody knows the "answer", THAT is why we are ALIVE…it is ALL up for us to iNTERPRET…we must sink and swallow the unknowingness
in vulnerability is strength
Ray, tried to cinch the Paradox of life for his lambs…it was never his to cinch
On July 25, just 10 weeks before the sweat-lodge deaths, Colleen Conaway, a typically cheerful 46-year-old from Minnesota, made her fatal plunge at the California mall.
Like the victims in Arizona, Conaway had no identification on her when she died, according to law enforcement.
After the jump, Ray and his staffers left the mall knowing that Conaway was missing from the group, according to authorities.
That was only 10 weeks before the sweat dome desaster…………….
Ray is a reckless …human being …who need to be arested and stop now
What does it take in the USA to stop a man responsible for 3 death
and planning more event s
Not only plastic but lots of plywood ….you can,t breath trought plywood …possibly treated with various chemicals .
Maybee the IYAWASKA …a drug that James Ray mention taking …may have confuse is mind in thinking he was a qualified Shaman
The media as now stop focusing on the event …who will keep the pressure to have Jame Ray
procecuted
This is just getting more and more insane! How anyone at this point can give even one red cent to James Arthur Ray, or still hold him up as an authourity figure worthy of respect is BEYOND me!! It's rather pathetic—and I hold those accountable who still support him as much as I do Mr. Ray. Sad… sad… sad.
My Grandfather told me once, "Never trust a man with 3 first names!!"
Please, continue your work – it just may save people their lives and their bank accounts. I have participated in an annual Sweat conducted in Scottsdale. It is conducted by a Native American who is trained in the Sweat Lodge Ceremony. In addition to the Leader of the Sweat, there is a Drummer, a Singer and an Observer. The role of the observer is to assure that everyone is well and safe. There is professional medical care on site! It is extremely dark inside of the sweat (the role of the Observer is essential) and it is conducted in the evening to assure that cooler air is circulating through the natural fabrics draped over the wooden frame. The maximum number of persons allowed into the Sweat is only 12! Communication begins months prior to the Sweat via e-mail. Questions are asked regarding health and stability in one's personal life. If at any time the person feels that the scheduled date of the Sweat is not right for them, they are encouraged to reschedule. No shame. Months of mental and physical preparation occur prior to the Sweat. Three days prior to the Sweat It is recommended to fast with fruit and to drink plenty of water – this removes toxins from the body. (Again there is on-going communication with the Sweat Lodge Leader via e-mail as to one's health status). The day of the Sweat the person is to be well hydrated. In fact, there is water at the Sweat sight in case someone needs it. A circle is formed out side of the lodge, and a sense of community is built between the participants. The ceremony is religious and a prayer is sung prior to the beginning of the sweat – we invite "All Our Relatives" to be present. Once inside, the cycle is 10 minutes. At the end of the 10 minutes, the flap is opened, if anyone needs to exit they are encouraged to do so – no shame! This continues for 6 more cycles, each cycle adds more hot rocks with drops of water (not buckets). If someone wants to remain and not exit after a cycle, they are not left alone – the Observer and the Leader remain with them. After the 6 cycle ceremony – there is a break and re-hydration and then the fast is broken with fruit and water. Then the final conclusion is the passing of the Peace Pipe, again, anyone may refrain from smoking. No shame. A prayer is said and everyone departs in silent appreciation. Only a donation is accepted. There is no fee. Please, this individual Self -Proclaimed Know It All…who does the seminars – is truly accountable for his ignorance and for his brutal misuse of a beautiful, gentle, and meaningful Native American ceremony. His negligence terminated lives. Peace and Blessings and Respect. from Scottsdale.
You might want to investigate, TM. They charge $2,000 for a mantra! Seems that the so called enlightened ones – pray on those most innocent. Sad.
[...] James Ray fiasco (you can read all about it at beyondgrowth.net) is magic gone horribly wrong. This “Spiritual Warrior” weekend called into being a [...]
Thanks for the comment and your experiences. I will definitely continue with my work.
Survivor Beverly Bunn told The Associated Press that even while people were collapsing, vomiting and gasping for air, Ray, who was leading the ceremony, urged everyone to stay inside.
More than 60 people were gathered inside the tent hoping to cleanse their bodies. But within the hour people began to collapse and vomit, Bunn said.
Other participants inside have said they were screaming "We need water," vomiting and fighting to stay alive.
They claim Ray said vomiting helps "purge the body" of what it doesn't need and coerced them to remain inside the sweltering tent.
from ABC web site
Survivor Beverly Bunn told The Associated Press that even while people were collapsing, vomiting and gasping for air, Ray, who was leading the ceremony, urged everyone to stay inside.
While people were not physically forced to remain in the tent, Bunn said Ray would chide them if they wanted to leave, saying weakness could be overcome, according to the AP.
Bunn told the AP she remembered hearing another person inside the tent trying to alert the group that one woman was having physical problems, saying, "I can't get her to move. I can't get her to wake up."
According to Bunn, Ray responded, "Leave her alone. She'll be dealt with in the next round."
Now I read this from the ABC web site
and nearly whanted to cry …..
What kind of a heart …..would take care of people like this …..after they trusted they where in good and expert hands …….
[...] left them. Abandoned them. And, according to some reports, he is still not talking with the authorities or the [...]
It it sad that …its been a few weeks now and the storm as calm down not many people are writhing on this blog anymore
And according to James Ray web site he is still out there planning seminars ..
I am surprise that so few people care to write how outrageous this man behavior
is all about …..3 dead folks and the guy is still saying to the world
"follow me I know better " even after abandoning people to die …refusing to talk to authorities and running away from Sedona ….What a creep
But then The leader of the Moonies.(Sun Myug Moon )..just married another 40,000 people
in a mass weeding ..and still brainwashing young people to sell chocolate bars to raise money ( of wich the BUSH famaly got big chunk of it )
ABC news nightline just did a peice on the leader of Scientology phisically beating his subordinate …
There just not many people ready to confront …cult and cult leaders
from misusing the body, mind and spirit of their followers .
As a hypnotherapist that as work with more than 20,000 people
I can assure you that capturing and brainwashing people is not very hard .
In the hand of people like James RAY
The LAW of ATTRACTION …can easely become the LAW of SUBMISSION
and then the LAW of EXTRACTION …of your money and of your common sense (your mind ) I invite anyone in the San Francisco and Reno area to go challenge this bastard when he shows up for the schedule seminars in the next few few weeks
I believe the best way to honor their amazing lives and everlasting memory is to continue this important work. Please join me in a moment of silence to pay homage to their lives and to pray for the speedy recovery of others taken ill.
James Arthur Ray
President/CEO
James Ray International, Inc.
So you abandon the people you where responsible for You chose to close the door of the sweat lodge …when you where told a participant was pass out ….you are responsible for the death of those 3 people …maybee a 4 th in San Diago 10 weeks prior to the sweat ..you …ran away … refuse to talk to the police ….and now you what to go around the country talking to people about your "IMPORTANT " work
You fucking bastard…I hope the police will make your IMPORTANT arrest before
you kill more people with your "IMPORTANT " bullshit
you whant to continue your "IMPORTANT WORK"
Your ego is bigger than your common sense …Jimy
"Only he and she who is willing to potentially go too far will ever know how far one can go." -T.S. Elliot
12:19 PM Sep 30th from txt …..From James Ray twitter
They paid it willingly (stupidly perhaps, but willingly). Near as I can tell nobody locked the doors. They were free to come and go. They should have had the good sense to figure out that if they weren't feeling well, they should seek relief.
So many people are so great at pushing the Law of Attraction and saying it brings riches to those who know how to use it. But the sad human factor kicks in pretty quickly when someone who is making large amounts of money gets into some trouble. Suddenly, everyone is up in arms about how much money this man charged for his activities. We know nothing about what was involved in the whole gathering, how long it lasted, what resources were tapped, etc. We just see the big $ signs and assume he must have been greedy and guilty. Ignorance and Jealousy are such sad, predictable human reactions. Time to get a life maybe and let the poor man sort through his troubles. They are his to sort through, not ours. We can only 'assume' things. Assumptions are dangerous, inaccurate things. Move on folks. There is nothing to see here.
Actually we now know a LOT about what happened, from the unauthorized use of mind-altering Holotropic Breathwork on day 1, to the elicitation and stacking of all past trauma and PTSD right before James Ray dones white robes and plays God–pointing to people that must roll over and die–to the 36 hour no food and water fast, etc etc with the "surprise" of a sweat lodge on the final day, with James Ray blocking the door physically and psychologically, people throwing up and passing out and Ray saying "they're just purging," etc.
You could go to nearly 70 workshops on Holotropic Breathing for $9,695. You could go to an infinite number of sweat lodges, for Native Americans don't charge for them!
The evidence clearly suggests that this man is negligent if not guilty of homicide, using the most intense coercive persuasion tactics known to humanity to do whatever serves his wallet and his ego.
""I believe he tricked these people, he coerced these people into this death trap, all for his financial gain," said Schmidt, who filed the lawsuit for Spencer."
http://bit.ly/K1Ha7