Comments on: James Arthur Ray’s Spiritual Warrior Event Kills 2, Injures 19 in Sweat Lodge Fiasco http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/ Exploring the Future of Personal Development Wed, 25 Aug 2010 18:50:51 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: LeeKuanMajor http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-2178 LeeKuanMajor Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:48:13 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-2178 The ABC program Mind Games, about James Arthur Ray, completely missed the MOST IMPORTANT aspects of this James Arthur Ray Sedona case and that is: The Construction of the Sweat Lodge They never even mentioned it! So, what if they interviewed experts in the construction of sweat lodges and asked them about the construction of the sweat lodge at the Sedona Warrior Workshop? What if the experts TRUTHFULLY told ABC that sweat lodges are supposed to be covered with breathable material. What if the experts had said that a sweat lodge covered in waterproof tarps, like the one in Sedona, could indeed be dangerous enough to cause serious injury or even DEATH!!! Then ABC would have logically asked: “Who built that sweat lodge?” From then on you would find out who the real culprits in this matter actually are and that is: Angel Valley! Angel Valley built a dangerously unsafe sweat lodge and if that wasn't bad enough Before the James Arthur Ray trial began Angel Valley DESTROYED EXHIBIT 'A' IN THE CASE. Obviously, Angel Valley is doing it's best to destroy all evidence that would implicate them in this matter. If James Arthur Ray was caught destroying that sweat lodge before his trial we wouldn't have heard the end of it! The media would have been all over him and he would probably still be in jail for attempting to destroy exhibit 'A' in the manslaughter case. How would you have felt if ABC investigated this MOST IMPORTANT aspect to the James Arthur Ray Sedona tragedy? Probably very different indeed! Obviously, the ABC Mind Games program is biased. It was made to serve a hidden agenda. That's why they never bothered to investigate into the construction of the sweat lodge Chances are NOT A SINGLE NATIVE AMERICAN who conducts sweat lodge ceremonies would publicly state that a sweat lodge covered with non-breathable, waterproof tarps was safe. NOT SO MUCH AS ONE NATIVE AMERICAN SWEAT LODGE LEADER IN THE WHOLE BLOODY WORLD!!! ABC was obviously determined that the whole world view James Arthur Ray as guilty NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH MAY BE and they 'back-engineered' the program to serve this hidden agenda SHAME ON YOU, ABC!!! YOU ARE GUILTY AS HELL!!! The ABC program Mind Games, about James Arthur Ray, completely missed the MOST IMPORTANT aspects of this James Arthur Ray Sedona case and that is:

The Construction of the Sweat Lodge

They never even mentioned it!

So, what if they interviewed experts in the construction of sweat lodges and asked them about the construction of the sweat lodge at the Sedona Warrior Workshop? What if the experts TRUTHFULLY told ABC that sweat lodges are supposed to be covered with breathable material. What if the experts had said that a sweat lodge covered in waterproof tarps, like the one in Sedona, could indeed be dangerous enough to cause serious injury or even DEATH!!!

Then ABC would have logically asked: “Who built that sweat lodge?” From then on you would find out who the real culprits in this matter actually are and that is: Angel Valley!

Angel Valley built a dangerously unsafe sweat lodge

and if that wasn't bad enough

Before the James Arthur Ray trial began Angel Valley DESTROYED EXHIBIT 'A' IN THE CASE. Obviously, Angel Valley is doing it's best to destroy all evidence that would implicate them in this matter.

If James Arthur Ray was caught destroying that sweat lodge before his trial we wouldn't have heard the end of it! The media would have been all over him and he would probably still be in jail for attempting to destroy exhibit 'A' in the manslaughter case.

How would you have felt if ABC investigated this MOST IMPORTANT aspect to the James Arthur Ray Sedona tragedy?

Probably very different indeed!

Obviously, the ABC Mind Games program is biased. It was made to serve a hidden agenda. That's why they never bothered to investigate into the construction of the sweat lodge

Chances are NOT A SINGLE NATIVE AMERICAN who conducts sweat lodge ceremonies would publicly state that a sweat lodge covered with non-breathable, waterproof tarps was safe. NOT SO MUCH AS ONE NATIVE AMERICAN SWEAT LODGE LEADER IN THE WHOLE BLOODY WORLD!!!

ABC was obviously determined that the whole world view James Arthur Ray as guilty NO MATTER WHAT THE TRUTH MAY BE and they 'back-engineered' the program to serve this hidden agenda

SHAME ON YOU, ABC!!!

YOU ARE GUILTY AS HELL!!!

]]> By: Responding to the Enemy, James Arthur Ray, with a Core Transformation, rather than Idiot Compassion. ~Duff McDuffee | elephant journal http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1818 Responding to the Enemy, James Arthur Ray, with a Core Transformation, rather than Idiot Compassion. ~Duff McDuffee | elephant journal Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:33:30 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1818 [...] there is anyone who qualifies as being my enemy, James Arthur Ray does. In the wake of his terrible and reprehensible actions in November at his Spiritual Warrior Event workshop in Sedona, I have spent countless hours angry at him and what he represents. I have called him names in [...] [...] there is anyone who qualifies as being my enemy, James Arthur Ray does. In the wake of his terrible and reprehensible actions in November at his Spiritual Warrior Event workshop in Sedona, I have spent countless hours angry at him and what he represents. I have called him names in [...]

]]> By: Can We Love Our Enemies Without Idiot Compassion or Shaming? | Beyond Growth http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1786 Can We Love Our Enemies Without Idiot Compassion or Shaming? | Beyond Growth Sun, 07 Mar 2010 14:10:00 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1786 [...] there is anyone who qualifies as being my enemy, James Arthur Ray does. In the wake of his terrible and reprehensible actions in November at his Spiritual Warrior Event workshop in Sedona, I have spent countless hours angry at him and what he represents. I have called him names in [...] [...] there is anyone who qualifies as being my enemy, James Arthur Ray does. In the wake of his terrible and reprehensible actions in November at his Spiritual Warrior Event workshop in Sedona, I have spent countless hours angry at him and what he represents. I have called him names in [...]

]]> By: Maiingun http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-1/#comment-1704 Maiingun Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:27:52 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1704 I totally agree with you, MGM. Perhaps you should've given 'ol James the same advice... I totally agree with you, MGM. Perhaps you should've given 'ol James the same advice…

]]> By: Maiingun http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1707 Maiingun Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:20:54 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1707 By the way- so = saw. hahaha. Sorry about the typos. By the way- so = saw. hahaha. Sorry about the typos.

]]> By: Maiingun http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1706 Maiingun Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:11:28 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1706 Hello: I am wondering how many of us have listened to the actual radio interview with Shawna Bowen and Jim Tree. (Link on this post by Duff) Almost any question as to what sort of mistakes may have lead to this disaster can be answered by Jim Tree. Ways that one can avoid similar situations are offered by Tree as well. I read almost all of the comments on this board and so several comments in reference to Shawna, but so almost nothing about what Tree said. Not to take anything away from Shawna, I'm sure she's a nice young lady, but I would suggest listening/re-listening to the things that Tree said in that interview. Listen VERY closely to his advice and criticism concerning traditional ceremonial practice, especially if you or someone you care about plan to engage in these types of ceremonies. After about 30 seconds into his speaking, my experience told me that he's a guy worth listening to. Great thread. I'm glad to see us all discussing this issue. Hello:
I am wondering how many of us have listened to the actual radio interview with Shawna Bowen and Jim Tree. (Link on this post by Duff) Almost any question as to what sort of mistakes may have lead to this disaster can be answered by Jim Tree. Ways that one can avoid similar situations are offered by Tree as well.
I read almost all of the comments on this board and so several comments in reference to Shawna, but so almost nothing about what Tree said. Not to take anything away from Shawna, I'm sure she's a nice young lady, but I would suggest listening/re-listening to the things that Tree said in that interview. Listen VERY closely to his advice and criticism concerning traditional ceremonial practice, especially if you or someone you care about plan to engage in these types of ceremonies. After about 30 seconds into his speaking, my experience told me that he's a guy worth listening to.
Great thread. I'm glad to see us all discussing this issue.

]]> By: Maiingun http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1705 Maiingun Thu, 18 Feb 2010 11:43:37 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1705 That depends on whether or not you knew beforehand the reputation of your caterer. Did you know before the meal that he was s**tting in his food? That depends on whether or not you knew beforehand the reputation of your caterer. Did you know before the meal that he was s**tting in his food?

]]> By: Joy_Livingwell http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1694 Joy_Livingwell Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:31:53 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1694 Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under. I just discovered this <a href="http:\/\/www.23nlpeople.com\/blog\/2009\/10\/the-asch-conformity-experiment.htm" target="_blank">4- minute video</a> about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how <b>peer pressure can distort people's perceptions</b> (so they genuinely <i>don't realize</i> that something is wrong), or <b>get them to behave like other group members</b> even when they <i>do</i> realize something is wrong. I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it. Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform -- pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have <i>thought</i> "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy. Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under.

I just discovered this 4- minute video about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how peer pressure can distort people's perceptions (so they genuinely don't realize that something is wrong), or get them to behave like other group members even when they do realize something is wrong.

I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it.

Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform — pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have thought "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy.

]]> By: Joy_Livingwell http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1693 Joy_Livingwell Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:31:24 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1693 Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under. I just discovered this <a title="23NLPeople website" href="http://www.23nlpeople.com/blog/2009/10/the-asch-conformity-experiment.htm">4- minute video</a> about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how <b>peer pressure can distort people's perceptions</b> (so they genuinely <i>don't realize</i> that something is wrong), or <b>get them to behave like other group members</b> even when they <i>do</i> realize something is wrong. I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it. Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform -- pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have <i>thought</i> "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy. Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under.

I just discovered this <a title="23NLPeople website" href="http://www.23nlpeople.com/blog/2009/10/the-asch-conformity-experiment.htm">4- minute video about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how peer pressure can distort people's perceptions (so they genuinely don't realize that something is wrong), or get them to behave like other group members even when they do realize something is wrong.

I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it.

Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform — pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have thought "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy.

]]> By: Joy_Livingwell http://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/james-arthur-rays-spiritual-warrior-event-kills-2-injures-19-in-sweat-lodge-fiasco/comment-page-3/#comment-1692 Joy_Livingwell Tue, 16 Feb 2010 01:29:18 +0000 http://beyondgrowth.net/?p=732#comment-1692 Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under. I just discovered this <a title="23NLPeople website" href="http://www.23nlpeople.com/blog/2009/10/the-asch-conformity-experiment.htm">4- minute video</a> about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how <b>peer pressure can distort people's perceptions</b> (so they <i>genuinely don't realize</i> that something is wrong), or get them to <b>behave like other group members</b> even when they <i>do</i> realize something is wrong. I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it. Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform -- pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have <i>thought</i> "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy. Duff, I applaud you for emphasizing the psychological pressure to conform that Ray's seminar participants were under.

I just discovered this <a title="23NLPeople website" href="http://www.23nlpeople.com/blog/2009/10/the-asch-conformity-experiment.htm">4- minute video about the Asch Conformity Experiment. Asch demonstrated how peer pressure can distort people's perceptions (so they genuinely don't realize that something is wrong), or get them to behave like other group members even when they do realize something is wrong.

I find these results even scarier than the Milgram experiment, in that no one told or forced these subjects to conform; they just did it.

Ray's seminar participants were under intense pressure to obey and conform — pressure from the leader, their own expectations, and behavior by other group members. Everyone may have thought "I want out of here!", but conformity prevailed. What a tragedy.

]]>