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778134 Commentshttp://beyondgrowth.net/guru-criticism/the-dark-side-of-the-secret-reading-james-arthur-rays-sweat-lodge-disaster-through-a-magickal-lens/The+Dark+Side+of+The+Secret%3A+Reading+James+Arthur+Ray%27s+Sweat+Lodge+Disaster+through+a+Magickal+Lens2009-10-10+09%3A15%3A20Duff+McDuffee »

1. [...] also read my followup post to this one, entitled The Dark Side of The Secret: Reading James Arthur Ray’s Sweat Lodge Disaster through a Magicka…. Share [...]

   Pingback by James Arthur Ray’s Spiritual Warrior Event Kills 2, Injures 19 in Sweat Lodge Fiasco | Beyond Growth — October 10, 2009 @ 2:27 am

2. 

   "Perhaps you will have a similar change of heart." Yes, I believe your perspective is correct when placed in Ray's self described context.

   Comment by Tony — October 10, 2009 @ 3:09 pm

3. 

   'Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.' I invite you to use your platform for healing, which, of course, must begin from within.

   Comment by Julie Zizka — October 10, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

4. 

   An excellent post, I've linked to it at my blog.

   Comment by Jason Pitzl-Waters — October 10, 2009 @ 5:21 pm

5. 

   Thanks for the compliment and the link, Jason.

   Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

6. 

   I'll do my best.

   Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

7. 

   Thanks for the feedback, Tony.

   Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 6:09 pm

8. 

   Another great perspective on an issue that was quite striking to me, Duff! I never knew about all the other stuff that went on behind the LOA, etc. Amazing. Would you classify the esoteric traditions as spiritual, as well? I've always thought there was a distinction.

   Comment by Albert | UrbanMonk — October 10, 2009 @ 6:17 pm

9. 

   I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't understand how it can be made to work.

   If anyone is in a position of power, they are in a place where the slightest mis-step will have extraordinary negative effects — and we can predict that there will be not only slight mis-steps, but severe mis-steps.

   The realm of the managed and the controlled can have everything be safe, of course; But life has a way of putting important questions and meaningful acts in places that are not managed and controlled: These are intrinsically dangerous situations, and further, they are surrounded by a fog.

   If we cannot act with confidence, even knowing that we may be making a severe mistake that will — far worse than cost us our own life: depriving innocents of their lives — then we simply confine all of life to a "safe" stasis.

   Comment by Lion Kimbro — October 10, 2009 @ 6:43 pm

10. 

    I don't see that James Ray's teachings have anything to do with LOA. They are a perfect example, though, of the basic LOA premise that if you send out Warrior and Death vibrations,then that is exactly what you will get back. Anyone who truly follows LOA would not want to participate in anything that has to do with a Warrior mentalitynunless all they were looking for in life was conflict.

    Comment by Teal — October 10, 2009 @ 8:02 pm

11. 

    I would classify the Western esoteric tradition as spiritual, yes, but often with a more worldly focus (making heaven on earth) rather than transcendent. But that's just my superficial reading.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 9:07 pm

12. 

    I'm not advocating for a safe stasis at all. I'm advocating that Ray live up to his own principles as a spiritual warrior and take full responsibility for the mistakes he made. This includes his decision to use plastic tarps instead of cloth and branches, which may have suffocated the participants according to the NY Times reporting on the event:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/us/11lodge.html

    Power and responsibility are two sides of the same coin.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 9:10 pm

13. 

    Ray was featured in the movie The Secret, which is about the Law of Attraction. For this reason, I consider him to be a primary teacher of the LoA. I do think it is debatable whether his teachings on the subject are ones we'd like to adopt or not, of course. And yes, I do agree with the analysis that "if you send out Warrior and Death vibrations,then that is exactly what you will get back" as I stated in my article, although I think that in some cases the Warrior/Death can be transformed into an ally through certain techniques.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 10, 2009 @ 9:12 pm

14. [...] from attending a “spiritual warrior event.” Beyond Growth blog comments on this story here, sharing the perspective of magick gone wrong. My heart is heavy, thinking of the participants who [...]

    Pingback by For What, A Better Life? — Spiritual Healing Journey — October 10, 2009 @ 6:15 pm

15. 

    Great blog article. It can be confusing to some people in that they can learn to fear being powerful (and thus possibly co-creating so-called negative events) as in the reader above. However, not only is James Ray 100% responsible for what happened, so are the other 64 plus people who participated. We are all 100% responsible for what happens in our lives. At the same time, we co-create our reality with everyone and everything in the Universe. We are not alone. James Ray could not powerfully create this reality without the rest of us. We ARE part of it. (cont)

    Comment by Dr. Karen Kan — October 11, 2009 @ 3:50 am

16. 

    On some unconscious/spiritual level, the people who died or suffered do not do so for no reason. I believe that there is a purpose to everything, even their "accidental" deaths. Even accidents are opportunities for growth as you pointed out.

    For Mr. Ray, the "reason" this could have happened to him is BECAUSE he is a LOA guru. In other words, someone of lesser self may not be able to transform this sad event into an opportunity for growth. Maybe he is at the stage of growth where he can MODEL how the rest of us can move through "tragedy" and stay in peace, joy and love. Most of us would not wish for such a test of our abilities.

    My prayers are with him and everyone involved. Thanks for your post.
    Dr. Karen
    http://www.lawofattractioninlove.com

    Comment by Dr. Karen Kan — October 11, 2009 @ 3:51 am

17. 

    Indeed, the event could not have occurred without the participants, who are responsible for their involvement.

    However, in terms of the responsibility for safety, I believe more of this falls on Ray than the participants, since he had more power to control the environment, set, and setting.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 11, 2009 @ 8:21 pm

18. 

    Beautiful post. Nothing more to say, you're spot on with a great perspective.

    Comment by Jen — October 12, 2009 @ 12:36 am

19. 

    Thanks, Jen.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 12, 2009 @ 12:42 am

20. [...] You might enjoy reading what he has to say and the exchange of comments that followed. It’s at: The Dark Side of The Secret: Reading James Arthur Ray’s Sweat Lodge Disaster through a Magickal Le…, and it ends with a summary I heartily agree with:  ”One could see this disaster as ‘the dark [...]

    Pingback by Mars-Neptune Aspects and the Sweatbox Deaths « Sky Writer — October 12, 2009 @ 1:40 am

21. [...] You might enjoy reading what he has to say and the exchange of comments that followed. It’s at: The Dark Side of The Secret: Reading James Arthur Ray’s Sweat Lodge Disaster through a Magickal Le…, and it ends with a summary I heartily agree with: ”One could see this disaster as ‘the dark [...]

    Pingback by Mars-Neptune Aspects and the Sweatbox Deaths » AstroDispatch.com » Astrology Around The Web — October 12, 2009 @ 7:56 am

22. 

    Hello Duff,
    I am new to your blog, however I have just read through many of your posts and wanted to applaud you for your candor and perspective. It is my opinion that you represent a minority of individuals that strive to maintain an open mind and ever evolving judgment. Your beautifully written perspective on many topics, specifically the Sweat lodge and Darker Side of the Secret over the last 24-48hrs alone demonstrates for (me at least) what I find to be an admirable ability. That is the ability to recognize that our own personal emotions, experiences, curiosities, and 'paths to enlightenment' are not only built from personal individual experiences but from our cultural/national/ethic/religious heritage and learned behaviors and thought processes, and that we should weigh each of those influences carefully before making a final judgment. As well as, always being mindful to apply those to later decisions.

    I look forward to your next post. )

    Comment by Phoenix — October 12, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

23. 

    Thanks so much Phoenix. It's always nice to hear that somebody *gets* where I'm coming from! Beyond Growth is technically a group blog, but we haven't had many posts from others yet. Hopefully we will soon, bringing an even richer dialogue to these matters of personal development embedded within culture and society.

    Glad to have you here, and hope you will participate in future discussions.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 12, 2009 @ 6:30 pm

24. 

    I don't understand how to reconcile that, — here it seems that you are asking him to take responsibility (and I'm not sure I understand what you think that entails,) which would mean exalting the principles of a "spiritual warrior" — but above, in your blog post, you argue that he needs to be repentive for his very "evokation of the Warrior" — as if this is in itself an error.

    To me — acting in confidence, even knowing that there may be severe problems with the action — I can draw a line between this and "warrior" imagery, and I don't see that it is necessarily error.

    If the problem is indeed a technical point about plastic tarps rather than cloth and branches, or too many people in the small space — then: we get further and further from a character flaw or character failing.

    Comment by Lion Kimbro — October 12, 2009 @ 9:32 pm

25. 

    Hello Duff:
    Good job with covering the deeper aspects of this tragedy. My heart goes out to all involved and that will need to continue to recover. I'm also grateful for all the responses here as a way of connecting with others, and I share in prayers and learning for all.

    Comment by Constance — October 12, 2009 @ 10:51 pm

26. 

    I have clearly stated or clearly implied what I think responsibility entails: being honest about what happened, speaking to police instead of skipping town, leaving websites and Twitter intact, pleading guilty or paying lawsuits when they occur, etc.

    From a magickal perspective, there is the additional responsibility that goes with the power of summoning archetypes like the warrior. Again, I clearly stated that evoking the warrior has certain risks. As with any risky behavior, the person engaging in it is responsible for the consequences, especially when it puts others' lives at risk. Do you not agree?

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 13, 2009 @ 12:46 am

27. 

    the great spiritual lesson here is "no means NO".
    that you can't just take the most sacred ceremonies from another culture that you do not belong and have not paid any dues too, mix it with whatever you feel like and sell it off as a business venture.
    for decades actual native americans have tried to warn the white culture about fraud ripping off and bastardizing their culture and ceremonies. no one listened opting instead for the glittery promises of the new age gurus and plastic shamans.
    and as a result people are constantly being ripped off and put in danger.
    as this blog puts it: Don't pay to pray
    http://dontpaytopray.blogspot.com/2008/06/in-memo...

    Comment by Samthor — October 13, 2009 @ 1:08 am

28. 

    I'm glad to see you are at last attempting to take deeper and less cynical look. Quite frankly, I'm shocked at how many otherwise conscious, aware, and forward-thinking bloggers have brought their own torches to this witch hunt. Clearly – something went wrong. Someone screwed up.

    But what seems to be happening is the wholesale selling-out of personal development work (like Ray's), trying to disassociate ourselves from anything remotely resembling his 'Spiritual Warrior' camp. So do we burn Harv Ecker and Tony Robbins at the stake next?

    And for what? For our own comfort and safety? If we don't speak out (on behalf of all the good work in the PD community) in the end, no one will be left to speak out for us.

    When does the community rise up and take responsibility for this – while simultaneously demonstrating that personal development and growth work DOES make a difference for millions of people?

    Two deaths among a sea of growing awareness – and yet we seem to be reversing the oars, heading back to shore…

    Comment by West — October 13, 2009 @ 1:10 am

29. 

    One lesson that anyone doing esoteric work must learn is that someone may be an effective magician and still not be someone whom you would trust in all areas of your life — with your money, with your spouse, with your supply of oxygen …

    Comment by Chas S. Clifton — October 13, 2009 @ 2:08 am

30. 

    Interesting photo of Sweat Lodge
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesray/1469845679/...

    Comment by Singularity — October 13, 2009 @ 4:49 am

31. 

    Nice find. Looks like that was from 2007, but you can clearly see the blue plastic tarps.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 13, 2009 @ 7:05 am

32. 

    Excellent analysis Duff!

    What's really disturbing about this whole thing is how the whole idea of spirituality turns into this belief where you need to face physical death in order to have a spiritual experience. Of course we've all heard of near death experiences profoundly impacting people's lives but in most cases they tend to be accidents or random occurrences. The idea that you would pay $10,000 to do this is for lack of a better word obscene (not to mention the issue of people being unable to pay the health care fees etc).

    I particularly agree with your last point because it's about time that these gurus stopped contradicting themselves and start to see what the consequences of what many of them are doing!

    Great Job

    Gordon

    Comment by Gordon — October 13, 2009 @ 7:16 am

33. 

    Thanks, Gordon. I totally agree that near-death experiences can profoundly impact a person's life, but usually these come at unpredictable times, and unwanted and for free at that!

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 13, 2009 @ 7:19 am

34. 

    Anyone confusing a sweat lodge ceremony with a near-death-experience clearly has no idea what a sweat lodge ceremony is…

    Comment by West — October 13, 2009 @ 4:36 pm

35. 

    I often tell those who read my book- Soulshaping: A journey of Self-Creation- to move through this terrain very carefully. One of the great problems with the LOA people is that they do not have the grounding in basic psychotherapeutic processes. So when they invite people to have a hyped up change your life experience- which seldom lasts, by the way- the first thing they will excavate are intense emotions that have not been worked through within the individual. To work with these emotions, one has to have some understanding of them and one has to create space for them. In addition, some individuals may not be physically healthy enough to move into these intensities. It is a perilous hype path. I do not know the circumstances around this particular situation, but I do often feel that the LOA people are acting like used soul salesman, trying to sell individuals a bill of goods that is not tangible or sustainable. Real transformation takes time. In addition, whenever someone is charging an exorbitant amount for their work, you have to question their intentionality. Real healers are not in it for the money. They do it because they love to serve and to help liberate others from the inner ties that bind. ~Jeff Brown~

    Comment by Jeff Brown — October 13, 2009 @ 5:27 pm

36. 

    Yes indeed, the LoA crowd, as well as much of personal development culture, sorely needs more of a grounding in some depth process such as psychotherapy. While I do think that sometimes a breakthrough experience is useful and appropriate, you are exactly right that these experiences often are hyped up, don't last, and/or unleash intense repressed emotions and unconscious material that can lead to all sorts of psychological problems.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 13, 2009 @ 7:08 pm

37. 

    And I should add too that part of American culture (including LoA/New Age and personal development) is often a pragmatic, anti-intellectual tendency. Unfortunately this aspect of our culture emphasizes bigger as better, and seeks out those who have less background and education as leaders and teachers.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 13, 2009 @ 7:11 pm

38. 

    Radio interview with actual witness of Spiritual Warrior 2009
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ShawnaBowen/2009/10/...

    Comment by Singularity — October 14, 2009 @ 3:08 am

39. 

    When I first saw the nes article on BBC I googled sweat lodge deaths. Found four instances of people dieing in sweat lodges. All were "New Age" or shamanistic. None were in Native American ceremonies. Oddly, all had 2 people die. One was in Colorado and also had plastic in the lodge. I was just getting ready to go to one when I found out about it.
    Sweat lodges are native american ceremonies for prayer, for humility, for healing and gratitude to creator.
    What he does is not a "sweat lodge" in that way.
    A Mass is a catholic prayer ceremony. Someone charging money to perform a "life transforming Mass" where flagellation takes place to push you beyond your bounds should not be called a mass. You need to be a catholic priest and be trained and everything to conduct a mass.
    The catholics have mass and it has a certain purpose and intention and way of doing it.
    Same with the sweat lodge. Indians do get angry about people thinking they are imitating their ceremonies, making money off them, stroking their own egos about how they are doing a cool pseudo indian ceremony that they have perverted in a bad way.

    Comment by John — October 14, 2009 @ 3:27 am

40. 

    Indians warn not to challenge the stones or the fire and ceremonies, but be humble and respectful with these forces of nature, this is power from creator. If you are using them for the benefit of your fellow man and mother earth and do it freely. No money, no ego, no base purpose (trying to impress anyone, impress women). That is the way you should do it.
    You must first learn to do it in a good and kind and humble way. They are not spirits to be conquered, or to follow your "orders" or commands like in some types of magic.
    It would be good for more people to respect the sacred ways of Native Americans. I know many many people do. Respect is something we are never done growing in. We realize it deeper as we practice it more. People thinking they know what a sweat lodge is and taking money for it when they aren't delivering what they are selling has a lot of negativity to it I think. If anyone ever charges for a sweat lodge it isn't a real sweat lodge.
    Personal growth comes in many forms. Mostly learning from our mistakes. We are just human beings all of us.

    Comment by John — October 14, 2009 @ 3:27 am

41. 

    John, thank you for the excellent metaphor of a Catholic Mass. That really illustrates the problems of cultural appropriation and commodification of native religious traditions.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 14, 2009 @ 3:31 am

42. 

    I totally agree with the way that you are reminding us of here, and this is the only kind of "magic" I support.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 14, 2009 @ 3:32 am

43. 

    I totally agree with the way that you are reminding us of here, and this is the only kind of "magic" I support.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 14, 2009 @ 3:32 am

44. 

    Nice job on this post. There are so many people who are quick to judge James Ray as a fraud or a con artist. I have read his book Harmonic Wealth many times and find it to have a lot of value. I can't believe that this happened — the execution was terrible on the part of James Ray's staff, but what about the people who stayed inside? I can't believe these people didn't get up and leave either. It makes me wonder about the soul agreements these people had before coming into physical form. When I look at it from that angle, there has to be a good reason why this happened — maybe we all needed another opportunity to practice compassion and the suspension of judgment.

    Comment by Christine — October 14, 2009 @ 4:50 am

45. 

    I admit that I too have been quick to judge Ray as a fraud and con artist, but since have had a change of heart.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 14, 2009 @ 6:34 am

46. 

    I should add that I believe James Ray to be more responsible (in terms of ethics and legality) than the people inside for the terrible results of this event.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 14, 2009 @ 7:01 am

47. 

    This is a first hand account of happened from a Sedona radio host who was invited to assist with the ceremony. She got there a late and right after people were experiencing the affects of the sweat lodge. Click on the little player to listen to her account.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ShawnaBowen/2009/10/...

    Comment by Alexis — October 14, 2009 @ 7:58 am

48. 

    Oops didn't see it posted earlier. Sorry.

    Comment by Alexis — October 14, 2009 @ 8:03 am

49. 

    There appears to be something missing from this conversation, from my viewpoint at least. And it has nothing to do with magic or the law of attraction.

    Having facilitated, frequented and invited others to numerous sweat lodges, vision quests and other transformational events, there's something we learned early on in our own experience. In such settings, as the facilitators or way-showers, we are responsible for the health and well-being of the people who attend events. As a result, the physical safety and welfare of the participants has to be a primary and first level concern and priority.

    I don't know exactly how, why, and what happened at this event (other than that which was reported), but I can only hope that the process by which decisions were made and how the specifics of the event were conducted will be thoroughly examined by those in charge and anyone else who runs such workshops and retreats where people are invited to take themselves to the extreme. The willingness of those involved to share what they learned would also be a genuine gift to the rest of us and a courageous act.

    Comment by Christopher — October 14, 2009 @ 10:47 pm

50. 

    good point here…
    this opens up the issue of accountability & safety for each person- mentally, emotionally & physically…. also, what really needs to be stressed is people are individuals– each at their own pace in their process

    to me there seems to be an "old model" "old paradigm" here of an over focus "pushing through" & brawn of brains…. & i mean "emotional intelligence & intuitive knowing

    Comment by michele — October 14, 2009 @ 11:14 pm

51. 

    Great post . I have done quite a few workshops over the years, and some sweat lodges too.I dont do any of them any more, largely because the leader – follower dynamic doesnt seem to be a healthy one- and I have better places to unload my cash- individual therapy and body work if I need it . This reminds me of Jonestown- they all drank death-Ray's coolade with relish, individually and collectively gave up there power to him- creating a momentum thats very difficult to reverse once it gets going- I'm trying to imagine sitting there in that huge sweatlodge- one small door very far away from me- a part of me wanting to get out, but that part has become weak because I have already made so many decisions to go along with the flow…..I'm wondering how many of them had had previous experiences with sweat lodges, knew that it was too big and not made right, that there were too many people, that it was not being led by a native elder, and went in anyway.

    Comment by drew chatterton — October 15, 2009 @ 12:48 am

52. 

    I’ve been following you for awhile on twitter (b4ur) and commenting recently. I have been enjoying the process of discovering how and what I think that is allowed when ideas are forced into their most concise form with none of the underlying considerations. This my first time accessing and reading your longer work. I was propelled by the James Ray tradgety and the issues surrounding compensation for services as group facilitators. I appreciate your discussion in this post if how your thinking had shifted with time and reflection. I’m not there yet. I want to allow for growth and enlightenment thru mistakes, but I can’t get past money these people paid for an experience that was so poorly administered. One of your Twitter responders spoke of charging outlandish fees for therapy services because the clients work harder on their commitment. That is appalling. With all the ways people can become invested in their own growth for a therapist to take the shallow pocket lining path just illustrates how corrupted the values have become in this industry. You hinted about a new model. I agree. I think the age of the Guru us giving way to a more evolved client/society. Look at what people like me cab be exposed to with just a few follows on Twitters. It is awe inspiring. Thank you fir what you are doing and you willingness to be so exposed.

    Comment by KJ Turner — October 14, 2009 @ 10:35 pm

53. 

    Excellent post. My heart really goes out to all affected by this tragic event and the way the aftermath is unfolding. I just discovered this news article about the sweatlodge tragedy and thought it quite relevant to the discussion to post a link here. It includes a leaked transcript of a recent conference call James A. Ray held with the survivors of the tragedy, and there's some disturbing reading to be had. This man who professes to be a healer and spiritual leader seems to be facing his 'demons' right now, and it's not pretty. It seems to me that he is rather desperate to stop any of his True Believers from doubting him or his teachings or holding him accountable in any way at this point in time. I actually felt sick to my stomach when reading this guy's psychological manipulation of the grieving, hurt and confused people who placed so much trust in his leadership.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-11245-Philadelphia-Spec...

    http://tinyurl.com/yh7apcx

    (Sorry, I don't know how to post hyperlinks properly yet!)

    His facebook wall is also worth a look, (http://www.facebook.com/jamesray?v=wall) as there are comments appearing from his followers. Some are questioning his behaviour (such as not talking to the police, fleeing the state, continuing to give his 'wealth' seminars when he is so obviously needed elsewhere in his community at this time, not personally visiting the injured participants and their families, or even the poor woman who is still comatose, etc.). Others are trying their best to rationalize away the tragedy and defend James A. Ray's behaviour, within the restricted framework of their accepted world view and with the particular flavour of the LoA 'group think'. It's so sad. Really, really sad.

    Comment by Sophie — October 15, 2009 @ 8:52 am

54. [...] a post on Beyond Growth, a collaborative blog exploring the future of personal development, Duff McDuffee tries to [...]

    Pingback by Global Voices Online » USA: Native American exploitation in Sedona ’sweat lodge’ deaths — October 15, 2009 @ 7:25 am

55. 

    Ya it's is sad to read. What a horrible accident but is interesting how his fans or followers respond to it also. You are right, everything from being supportive of him, to some saying he is the one that needs comforting. One women even says that James refers to his followers as his children in some seminars etc. It's interesting. The people saying that only people in the know realize it was their souls journey to die that day and defend him like nothing happened are the ones that concern me. Death could of been avoided, simple as that with proper precautions.

    Comment by Alexis — October 15, 2009 @ 5:49 pm

56. [...] a post on Beyond Growth, a collaborative blog exploring the future of personal development, Duff McDuffee tries to [...]

    Pingback by USA: Native Americans exploitation in Sedona ’sweat lodge’ deaths :: Elites TV — October 15, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

57. 

    Transcript of private call between James Ray and sweat lodge victims.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-11245-Philadelphia-Spec...

    Comment by Singularity — October 15, 2009 @ 7:43 pm

58. 

    I think perhaps both you and Duff are letting James Ray off too easy.

    Just because Ray wrote a nice book does say anything about whether or not he committed homicide in Sedona — those 2 items are completely unrelated.

    When we go to a retreat (or go to the doctor or go to a restaurant) we are putting ourselves in someone else's care — with the implicit agreement that the other person is a professional and has the situation under control (and will face legal consequences if they fail to live up to their professional obligations). Short of being a recluse, there is no way to check out every single aspect of every single situation to make sure it is up to code.

    When James A. Ray calls himself an expert and offers a retreat with a certain diet and certain ceremonial procedures — including an extreme sweat lodge — he is also taking on the legal responsibility to insure the well being of his participants.

    In EVERY instance of violence it would be really really nice if the victim had gotten up and left 3 minutes earlier — but again that does not change who the responsible party is. I find it troubling to see "blame the victim" thinking dressed up in New Age language. In fact I'm not sure why one would ever need any legal system at all if every victim of violence is just fulfilling some "soul agreement" he/she made before he/she was born.

    The fact that local fire officials were also called in response to problems with the same retreat in 2005 shows that Ray should have known better — http://bit.ly/1yCWZ5. James A. Ray was responsible for the health and well being of the people under his care — period.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 4:03 am

59. 

    Duff, you know I love ya brother. Your writing on the James A. Ray disaster has been excellent and groundbreaking. But I wonder if this post isn't too clever by half? It's like you had all these great insights on magik and Chod and then the James A. Ray situation got shoehorned in as an afterthought — much to the detriment of understanding either the James A. Ray disaster or magik and Chod.

    Here are some questions to perhaps reframe the debate: Should we see O.J. Simpson's actions through the eyes of his magik and his quotes about performance on the football field (he really was magikal during his time in the NFL)? Just because James A. Ray practices a bunch of hocus pocus, doesn't mean that this hocus pocus suddenly replaces our system of civil and criminal laws. Said differently, when do we ever filter the actions of the accused through their own self important and occasionally deluded statements? Think of the case of Charles Manson — he would have benefited greatly if we had viewed his actions through his own bizarre worldview (he saw himself as a hero after all). But as a society we judge one's actions through an established set of laws that we all agree to as part of the social contract of living in a democracy. James A. Ray's right to be a "Spiritual Warrior (TM)" only extends as far as his own body. Once he starts to involve other people through classes and seminars and such — he is subject to the laws of civil society.

    I get the noble purpose of this post — to goad James A. Ray into manning up and pleading guilty to his crimes. It's a noble purpose. But once two people are dead, James A. Ray does not get to decide this any more. A judge and jury will decide this. The problem with Ray and Robbins and Wilber and Deida and Gafni and Adi Da is that they think that they are somehow above the law — above the rest of us, above the riff raff of civil courts and sheriffs and local fire codes.

    Besides, Ray has already lawyered up, left the scene of the crime, and refused to give interviews to police. And it doesn't appear that he has learned anything from the two deaths either, with one of his staff members on the conference call yesterday referring to the two victims as, "the two that had passed and they left their bodies during the ceremony and had so much fun they chose not to come back and that was their choice that they made.” Those are the words of a sociopathic organization.

    I just don't understand why Ray should be given the benefit of the doubt and the benefit of his own magikal and possibly homicidal personal code of conduct when we don't afford that benefit of the doubt to anyone else in society.

    Again I love ya brother, and you're doing excellent excellent work on this blog and on Twitter and in the real world. But this post just did not resonate with me. I think Ray's actions should be judged through the eyes of the civil and criminal code of the state of Arizona.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 5:00 am

60. 

    Thanks for your thoughts, Toby. In the light of how Ray has responded to this situation, I totally agree with your point of view. He is not taking accountability at all, and in fact is actively blaming others for the construction of the sweat lodge, etc., having hired one of the top PR people in LA to manage his death lodge PR:

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2009...

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 5:15 am

61. 

    The idea of this post was to save spirituality by showing how Ray is responsible–ethically and legally–even from within his own perspective, in addition to legally and ethically from the outsider view. Perhaps I gave him too much credit though and it wasn't clear.

    In light of the recent events where Ray has avoided the police, hired an LA PR guy, and blamed others for the construction of the death dome, I believe that asking Ray to admit to his crimes is already too late, and that yes, he should now be treated as a criminal and cult leader and brought to justice.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 5:18 am

62. 

    That said, Ray could still plead guilty, sell all he owns and give it to the victims, admit to the media and the public that he is responsible, etc. I now think it is very unlikely that he will do so, however.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 5:20 am

63. 

    I see what you're saying: 'The idea of this post was to… show how Ray is responsible–ethically and legally–even from within his own perspective in addition to legally and ethically from the outsider view.' I think that's a helpful point and indeed, that has a certain Truth and Reconciliation Commission sort of quality about it. I also think your point below about restitution is helpful (though I agree that given what we have seen thus far it is unlikely). Thanks for clarifying and thanks for all your writing and thinking on this matter.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 5:39 am

64. 

    Yea, in particular I had the notion that the LoA people would blame the victims for *attracting* their deaths, rather than focus on Ray's responsibility for attracting the death and injury of his workshop participants. I also have some affinity for the western esoteric tradition and wanted to explore how one could keep the tradition and reject Ray's actions as utterly corrupt.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 5:44 am

65. 

    Thanks for the excellent link Duff! There are some helpful comments after that article too. It would be interesting sometime to compare comments on just regular news sites with comments on New Age Forums about this disaster. (I get that this blog is NOT a New Age forum but it seems to be attracting some readers who have studied in that tradition). My hunch is that people on a regular news site would be more likely to see this as a crime and people on a New Age site would be more likely to see this as a test or a teaching (much as how James A. Ray would like us to see it). Which (IF TRUE) would be really kinda chilling — and perhaps one of the reasons there are so many problems within "spiritual communities" — if we see things the way the guru does — eventually the guru may come to believe he/she can literally get away with murder.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 5:56 am

66. 

    Yep, I see where you are going with that. Makes sense.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 5:59 am

67. 

    Sorry for the numerous and voluminous comments from me of late… I had just one more thought I wanted to share. I woke up thinking about this so it seems like I should get it out of my head and into the world.

    It seems to me that Personal Development writ large in the United States is stuck in an 18th century mindset. In so many ways it seems that the personal development guru hucksters out there wish to return to a simpler time before the American Revolution, before checks and balances, before the rule of law became supreme, before our founding fathers (who had enormous personal problems of their own) rightly concluded that the dark side of our humanity could only be kept in check through an elaborate system of limits and diffused power.

    James Ray says that people killed at his event chose their death. Ken Wilber tells critics to "suck his dick." Steve Pavlina calls those who question him 'cheese puff eating bitches.' And John Mackey says 'no health care for you!' And they seem genuinely perplexed when the rest of us push back against their madness. In each case they are invoking the Divine Right of Kings to be free from earthly criticism. The Wikipedia entry for Divine Right of Kings is really quite good:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_king...

    "The divine right of kings is a political and religious doctrine of royal absolutism. It asserts that a monarch is subject to no earthly authority, deriving his right to rule directly from the will of God. The king is thus not subject to the will of his people… or any other estate of the realm…. The doctrine implies that any attempt to depose the king or to restrict his powers runs contrary to the will of God and may constitute heresy."

    I think that's a pretty good description of the mindset of James A. Ray and his ilk — they imply that their authority derives from a direct link to God (obtained through their rigorous study or practice rather than by birth) and as such they will not permit any limits or critiques of their perceived rights to behave however they wish. (Seen in this light, when Steve Pavlina banned you for life from his forums he was banning you for committing heresy.) And Ray's followers then hearken back to monarchists who also support the divine right of kings and seem to have missed out on the genius of representative forms of government and the healthy systems that can emerge under a system of robust civil codes and regulations.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 7:11 pm

68. 

    Right on, Toby. I think this is indeed accurate, and fits with my reading of personal development as the religion of capitalism. Personal Development Kings rule your life and tell you how to live such that one day you too can be a king, if you work hard and have the right attitude. But if you question my divine authority, you will never be successful, etc.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 7:19 pm

69. 

    And don't forget Andrew Cohen, who talks relentlessly about spiritual authority and how the postmodern culture doesn't believe enough in true gurus, then abuses his students psychologically and extorts them for their life savings under duress. What a king!

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 7:26 pm

70. 

    And each person in the group had the responsibility to stay or to leave. I don't think blaming Ray is the way to go. I do think each person is responsible for his own decisions. Perhaps this speak to people flocking to outside 'guru's' for help. Maybe one of the things to think about is why so many people do this..looking outside of ourselves for the answer. the whole point is that the answer is within. If people were looking internally I wonder if some of them wouldn't question what the 'guru' was doing.

    Comment by Ria Swift — October 16, 2009 @ 7:53 pm

71. 

    Thanks Duff! "Personal development is the religion of capitalism." Yep, I think that is exactly what's going on. But like a King, they don't really have much real value to offer so they inevitably turn into these abusive Ponzi schemes. In fact, I bet a great post could be written about how much of the Personal Development world we see in today is really the 3rd generation of a pyramid scheme created by Adi Da. (Da started the pyramid, got rich and split to his own personal island, then Wilber, Cohen, Deida, et al were the second tier, and now their followers are trying to start the 3rd wave). That's probably not the most charitable interpretation I could give (like the modern PDev gurus, Kings probably offered SOME value — the ability to raise an army to save their own skin probably helped keep a nation together for example) — but I do think it's interesting to think about the genealogy of how we got to this point. And all pyramid schemes ultimately collapse, which may be what's starting to happen now.

    It's also really quite weird, that 200 years after democratic participation became the norm in the our politics — that it still has yet to penetrate our workplaces or educational settings (including PDev) in any meaningful way. Maybe that's why the internet is so dang popular — it's participatory and democratic while the rest of our lives are not.

    Comment by Toby — October 16, 2009 @ 8:23 pm

72. 

    I'm not in favor of blaming anyone, but I do believe Ray is more legally and ethically responsible for the safety of his participants, especially given recent news that Ray had very strongly encouraged everyone to stay in the sweat dome, had in 2005 someone pass out and called 911, etc.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 11:42 pm

73. 

    Indeed, I hope this event leads to a greater depth of personal development.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 11:44 pm

74. 

    Thanks for the comment, KJ.

    I find the idea that clients value services more and thus get more value when they cost more has diminishing returns above a fair market rate. Beyond that, it's pure greed and self-delusion. (Drinking your own kool-aid as Eric and I say.) That Twitter woman is part of an MLM, which I believe to a be a cult structure as well. I'd like to do some writing about MLMs on this blog at some point.

    There are many restrictions on what licensed therapists can do to get and retain clients, due to the recognition of power dynamics with the client in such a vulnerable position. Folks like Ray and Robbins are the reason why there are such ethical guidelines and legal structures.

    I hope we are evolving past the age of the guru as well.

    ~Duff

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 11:51 pm

75. 

    Thanks for the links, Sophie.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

76. 

    Simple precautions could have prevented the deaths, but it is sometimes not so simple for a narcissist to give up power and money…

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 16, 2009 @ 11:52 pm

77. 

    Ray, have you read about the death of Colleen Marian Conaway, that occurred when she was attending one of Ray's seminars back in July of this year? Very very hinky if you ask me.

    Comment by KimP — October 17, 2009 @ 3:53 pm

78. 

    UGH!!! I called you Ray!!! Sorry Duff!!!

    Comment by KimP — October 17, 2009 @ 3:54 pm

79. 

    Incredible, Duff.

    And I'm really excited to see more on this: "While I haven’t written as much about a new model, I have been pondering what one might look like. I have several examples in mind already of techniques and approaches, but no coherent framework that suits me yet. I hope to share some of my ideas and explorations, or even just some of my questions on this blog soon, so that we can discuss and debate these ideas together."

    Comment by Brian Johnson — October 17, 2009 @ 8:07 pm

80. 

    lol

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 17, 2009 @ 10:40 pm

81. 

    I've read about that recently as well. Ray has had many warnings it seems, but hasn't changed his ways.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 17, 2009 @ 10:41 pm

82. 

    Thanks, Brian. It's coming, slowly and organically.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 17, 2009 @ 10:41 pm

83. 

    As all great things go, eh?

    Really blown away by and appreciative of all the energy you're putting into this. It's inspiring, sir.

    Comment by Brian Johnson — October 17, 2009 @ 11:04 pm

84. 

    Hopefully October 2009 will be the last time we will see the likes of James Ray fooling around with the lives of other humans in our beautiful town of Sedona, AZ. The native American Community is as outraged by his abuse of their sacred traditions as are a huge number of us local citizens. Grown adults dabbling around in our town with the sacred traditions of other cultures to make their personal fortune is not only insulting, but fraudulent, and as we have seen, has even provm to be deadly. Our hearts go out to the the 3 people who paid this huckster $9,000 to help "improve" their lives only to have their lives snuffed out in a moment of what is looking more and more like sheer stupidity and financial greed. This tragedy in Sedona is the product of an arrogant multi-millionare white man trying to add to his personal fortune by acting like a 10 year old playing "injun" in the 1950's. The site location even had a cute "tepee" set up for effect. How nice.

    But in the end it appears that Ray is no more than just a modern day version of the pied piper. He continues scheduling new lectures and events while three of his followers have been sent home in coffins. He won't even talk or cooperate with our local Yavapai county Sheriff as they try to get to the bottom of how these people died. Unfortunately, word has it that this same seminar for "Spiritual Warriers" is scheduled to return again in Sedona next year. If so, I can only say– Buyer Beware! Oh my!

    Comment by Fred Barnover — October 18, 2009 @ 5:55 am

85. 

    In our tradition we never sell ceremonies. $9000.00 for a spiritual retreat beckons tragedy. There are many out there who go to authentic sweatlodge ceremonies coming out thinking that they can also make one happen. Having a sweatlodge is a huge responsiblity towards the community and their well being. There is so much involved that I cannot reveal, only that if it is not done in respect for all the Spirits things happen. Once again I see how Native American spiritual traditions are being abused. I am sorry to hear that so many people have been hurt for a lifetime and more for the irresponsibility of one greedy man.

    Comment by jaguarwoman — October 18, 2009 @ 6:31 am

86. 

    For the most part, I’m a passer by in my own life; I’m seldom where I am, always dreaming of somewhere other than where I am, of doing something other than what I do now. I guess it’s the sickness that curses many of us on earth, but I just read on the paper that two people died in Arizona inside a sweat lodge as they followed the directions of some self-proclaimed guru of sorts; some kind of a gimmick created by another displaced human who promises material wealth to his followers if they do this and that. Wow. Even I know that joy can’t be found in material things, how can intelligent people believe such nonsense? I understand that one of the dead was a father of three children, a good man. The woman that died was also an angel on earth, according to her friends. What in the world where these good people doing listening to a moron? Reportedly these two folks paid the made-believe guru somewhere between $9,000 and $10,000 a piece to get inside this sweat lodge made of plastic tarps and blankets.

    I hope Ray Guru-wannabe gets what he deserves. Karma will come around to get him in the rear, for sure. But you know what is truly amazing about the whole thing? That there are a bunch of his followers who are making up excuses for him, people who apparently don’t have much of a brain to think for themselves and follow blindly whatever this idiot tells them to do. It just boggles my mind. Will the authorities do something about this maniac? Apparently, there have been other cases of people getting sick by the weird practices he designs in order to “align their spirits with the universe.” Oh, brother.

    I have an idea: Why don’t the authorities align his royal behind with the bars of some prison? Let him try some of his own medicine inside a federal prison. Let’s see if he can endure adversity gracefully, as he advises others to do.

    Comment by Lou — October 18, 2009 @ 7:04 am

87. 

    Amen

    Comment by Lou — October 18, 2009 @ 7:06 am

88. 

    Thanks for the comment, Fred. I also hope this man is permanently prevented from putting anyone in danger again.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 18, 2009 @ 7:11 am

89. 

    Read this link. If it is true, this guy is going away for awhile…

    http://thumpandwhip.com/2009/10/19/survivors-tale...

    Comment by Alexis — October 19, 2009 @ 7:29 pm

90. 

    Many cult leaders continue to do their thing for many years after such abuses are uncovered, but I hope Ray gets lots of press for his abuses and is stopped legally or otherwise from continuing.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 19, 2009 @ 8:38 pm

91. 

    I will be praying for Jesus to come to all those in need.

    5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
    eyes, but they cannot see;

    6 they have ears, but cannot hear,
    noses, but they cannot smell;

    7 they have hands, but cannot feel,
    feet, but they cannot walk;
    nor can they utter a sound with their throats.

    8 Those who make them will be like them,
    and so will all who trust in them.

    …

    14 May the LORD make you increase,
    both you and your children.

    15 May you be blessed by the LORD,
    the Maker of heaven and earth.

    16 The highest heavens belong to the LORD,
    but the earth he has given to man.

    Comment by WayneJF — October 20, 2009 @ 7:10 am

92. 

    As a vision quest guide and spiritual counselor myself, this tragedy has weighed heavily on my heart since it happened. When I facillitate experiences in nature for others that include 3 or 4 days and nights fasting alone in the wilderness, it is with profound awareness that there are inherent dangers in in acting these ancient ceremonies and rituals in modern ways. Rites of Passage guides often use the metaphors of living and dying, as in "we die" to our old selves/lives and be reborn to a new one that is filled with new awareness, vision and purpose for improving humanity. There is something powerfully transformative about going to the edge, of facing one's death, that gives them an appreciation for life. (It's not unusal to also invoke the "Spiritual Warrior" archetype.)

    But the last thing we would ever want is for someone to really die! We take all the precautions possible: screen participants for health and psychological issues. Teach basic wilderness survival skills. Give advice on setting up a tarp for shelter and staying warm. Inact a buddy system, keep track of quester's solo spots and visit them if intuition or circumstance warrents. Yet dangers are always present in the wild, especially when one is alone: wild animals, unexpected extreme weather, poisonous plants, getting lost, illness, etc. Most guides have participants fill out waivers of responsibility, obtain trip insurance, and warn everyone that this is not going to be easy.

    Why do teacher, guides and especially the participants take such risks? Because over the millenium they have proven to be intensely productive, healing & beneficial, not only for the individual, but their families and communities. The extreme rituals are effective in inducing spiritual experiences and perceptual shifts, and miracles are common place at these times.

    How much responsbility does the teacher/guide have, and how much do the participants have, if something goes wrong… even terribly wrong? I think each situation has to be thoroughly analyzed and understood in its own right.

    Part of me wants to demonize Ray, largely because he charges 10 times the amount I do and has 10 times more participants than I do. I think some of it is jeolousy. Some of it may be I haven't completely let go of the limiting belief that making lots of money is bad spiritually… ironic, this is a belief he appearantly works hard to help others overcome. I know I don't want to have "poverty" consciousness and don't really think I'm any better than him because I am less financially successful. I don't know if he turns away poor people, but he certainly has enough rich people who come to his seminars… and wealthy people need spiritual assistance as much as anyone. With that said, it is hard for me to imagine ever charging this much, even if I thought people would pay for it. I always want my sessions/workshops to be available to anyone, regardless of what they can afford. I wonder, would we be questioning his part in this if he offered his workshops for way less money, or even for free?

    Would we then wonder if he were the leader of a dangerous cult, instead of a self-help guru???

    So I don't really know what to think. I just learned a third participant died, and I am crying for her family and friends and the loss that can never be repaired. I'd like to believe there is some higher cosmic purpose for this: to help Ray help even more people than he already has in a much better way, by humbling him and forcing his own transformation. Or, perhaps by teaching all the other workshop attendees something of major importance that we haven't gotten yet, or teaching all of us who are reading and grieving to be better people somehow… to be safer guides and teachers and leaders. I just don't know. What about those people who tragically died? Did their souls choose this time and this way to go? Were they ready? Did they take Ray's symbolic talk literally and pass on to a higher plane of existance? Or is this all the work of demons who got the better of all of us??? I really don't know.

    Thanks for all your posts. These discussions are important. I hope we learn more soon. It strikes me as rather odd that we aren't hearing or reading interviews with the survivors. What went on in that lodge?

    Comment by Amy — October 20, 2009 @ 8:55 am

93. 

    Continued from last post…

    As a final note, I have attended sweat lodges and classes with 100's of people, but was trained to have at most 12 on something like a vision quest, and then to have 2 guides present at that number. 55, the amount Ray had, is alot, and I'm wondering about the size of his staff and assistants. Also about the construction of the sweatlodge? From the photos looks extremely low to the ground. Was there not enough air??? I do wonder about the amount of rocks brought in… one news report said every 15 minutes for two hours. Did they open the flaps wide and pass around water during those times? All the lakota-styled sweats I've been to had 4 "doors", or rounds, where the doors were open, people came or went depending on how they felt, water was shared, fresh, cool air welcomed in, and more hot lava rocks honored inside with praises of "grandfather" or "grandmother". I've been trained to lead sweats myself and have participated many times in building the lodges with others, but have not initiated or lead one myself, mostly because I have not been "called" to do so. I've never heard or believed it was a very dangerous practice, but have been mindful that it is a difficult one for many, and could be harmful for the very young, old, sick or pregnant.

    One a completely different note (or is it???) yet with the same tragic elements, what do you think of the New Jersy marathon where three men with no known health problems died within a matter of minutes of each other??? It is eerie, in that no one knows why, if it was a freak coincidence or foul play at hand…. pending investigation and toxicology reports, just like in this case. DO YOU THINK THE ORGANIZERS OF THE MARATHON SHOULD BE HELD AS ACCOUNTABLE AS JAMES RAY? IS A MARATHON MORE OR LESS OR THE SAME WHEN IT COMES TO LEVEL OF HEALTH DANGER AND RISK???

    Thanks for reading.
    Amy

    Comment by Amy — October 20, 2009 @ 8:56 am

94. 

    Amy, thanks for your thoughts.

    Here is a disturbing inside account of the sweat lodge deaths: http://bit.ly/Z8b3s
    (scroll down to pause the Blog Talk Radio interview that loads when the page loads)

    If this account is true, Ray has gone off the deep end into insane psychopathic guru land.

    Taking precautions is exactly the opposite of what Ray and co. did, and is a great example of evoking the warrior in a relatively safe way, like learning how to set your harness properly when rock climbing.

    Greed consciousness is another form of poverty consciousness–it's still based on the notion that I don't have enough. It's just like someone who is overcompensating with extreme over-confidence because they don't really feel confident at all. Greed itself is a feeling of I don't have enough, therefore I think I need more than I really need.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 20, 2009 @ 8:56 pm

95. 

    They did not pass around water. Those most affected were in the back, and did not feel ANY relief whatsoever from the doors opening. Participants were already very dehydrated from the 36 hour no food and no water vision quest (which Ray and staff did not participate in). Ray closed the doors in participants faces, saying "too late! door's shut" etc.

    Ray is MUCH more responsible than a marathon organizer due to the intense psychological coercion that occurred.

    Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 20, 2009 @ 8:58 pm

96. 

    The composer Richard Wagner was a fabulous composer, but was a great admirer of Hitler!
    What I want to say with this is: HUmans are not perfect, it was OBVIOUSLY STUPID/GREEDY what Ray and Co. did at this primitive-looking sweat lodge retreat BUT:
    The secret is inspired and it is STILL a beautiful work that has helped many instead of turning to antidepressents, alcohol, hard drugs or etc..,
    The outcome of this tragedy, is unfortunately the flip-side of something good, which is always not too far away__ as opposite polars attract– goodness and badness.
    God (no warrior Gods) is also the answer PLUS faith in oneself (as The Secret shows) makes the perfect union!

    Comment by marg — October 20, 2009 @ 4:36 pm

97. 

    Hi Chas,
    that is very good.
    Thank you.
    Rgds,
    Marcio

    Comment by Marcio Oliveira — October 21, 2009 @ 2:21 pm

98. 

    I sent a msg to James A. Ray in Twitter and called attention to problems Joe Vitale and Him had recently and both had gone to Machu Picchu this year. Money trip to esoteric places?
    Money paid ritual with native indians ceremonies? Well, as in everything one should separate the bad from the good,. Rhonda Byrne´s The Secret is a good thing. Most of people involved are good people.

    Comment by Marcio Oliveira — October 21, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

99. 

    I’m glad I’m not sitting with Ray’s karma. Over 50 or 60 Sundancer led Inipis, no problem.
    In lodges led by wanna be’s, people felt sick, negative. When Ive poured it’s been healing
    for all. Sensitivety to each and Every participant’s needs are vital & honored. Funny how
    Natives have a succesful track record and people who do not honor Indigenious peoples’ ways
    cause grave harm n death. Eloquence as a sign of spiritual Mastery is extremely over rated by Americans.
    It is forgotten the Devil has a Silver tongue, as does politicians.

    Comment by Jack — October 24, 2009 @ 4:35 pm

100. 

     Hi,

     I have a deep distrust of anyone who charges such exhorbitant fees, the laws of attraction are about many things, not only money which we clearly are not evolved enough to understand. We covet it, we worship it, we lie and cheat and kill for it, but money gives a semblance of beauty, a semblance of the divine, a semblance of power, a semblance of immortality, and yet can leave the true evolution of the soul dying of hunger.

     Look into the eyes of James Arthur Ray. Is this an evolved soul? I'm sorry, but I am I the only one who sees a rat? What gives? He looks and sounds like a cheap used car salesman. How could anyone be convinced to give up their own god given gut instincts, follow this man into the desert, and put their life into his hands?

     I have been to healing sweats, I have followed some leaders into dangerous personal waters, and have benefitted, but never have I allowed anyone to over ride my bullshit meter.
     I am afraid James Ray DID attract what he needed to. Whether or not his victims deserved to die so that he might learn a lesson on hubris, is another matter.

     Comment by Memi — October 27, 2009 @ 10:13 pm

101. 

     Hey HI,
     Just thinking too, that any good Witch always mutters "For the greater good of all, HARM NONE" along with any spell, incantation, or statement of intention. Sort of like a safeguard against our own will backfireing against us. Also allowing for a greater power to only guide our will in such a way that harms none, because these forces are strong and WILL ABSOLUTELY work. Just be careful what you wish for. I wonder how many of those spiritual/wealth seekers who survived will end up with book deals!

     Comment by Heather — October 28, 2009 @ 12:09 am

102. 

     I am quick to judge him as a fraud because he clearly hasn't done his homework. Anyone taking the time to see will discover that this ongoing quest for the "American Dream" is a sham, RICH people stay rich by hoarding wealth! Ray is a pyramid scheme that proposes that money will solve your problems. I bet this publicity isn't hurting his pocketbook. On top of that, he is creating quite the scheme with his whole "world wealth society". Don't be duped by this garbage. In fact, lighten up with the whole anthropocentricism thing. Your food comes from nature, not the grocery store. No matter how hard i try to believe that humanity rules the world, these nuts keep falling from the trees.
     Get up and leave, geez Christine, they paid a hefty amount and were duped by a con artist. how would they know that this wasn't part of the show, doesn't seem like Ray made an indication of things going awry.
     You are right Christine the good reason that this happened: for mocking spiritual ceremonies of another culture, greed, poor risk management… and ultimately because this Ray fellow thinks he is a new age Jesus and therefore untouchable.

     Comment by Rkzak — October 28, 2009 @ 2:54 am

103. 

     My question for you: Do you, as "a vision quest guide and spiritual counselor", stand to gain monetary profit or do you do it for the sake of the whole?
     Perhaps living a modest, more sustainable life is more rewarding and produces more wealth than can ever be bought. People feel weak and powerless because they cannot provide for themselves, who do you know that grows all of their own food and can make their own clothes, shelter..etc. – we all rely on each other (whether we like it or not) and in a disproportionate manner. The lives of many are used to provide for the lives of few elitists. Grabbing bits an pieces of knowledge and cramming them into a program is holistic – it's disjointed and out of context. I am sad that people died in a ceremony that ethically speaking, should have never happened.
     And no, the organizers of marathons are way different, they aren't running alongside you pushing you past your boundaries, nor are they using traditional ceremonies of another culture in an inaccurate manner.

     Comment by rkzk — October 28, 2009 @ 3:14 am

104. 

     I don't get it.

     Comment by rkzk — October 28, 2009 @ 3:16 am

105. [...] been sitting with this incident for two weeks now, reading insightful commentary from folks like Duff McDuffee and responses from the Native American community. Various Native Americans have spoken out against [...]

     Pingback by Addicted to Breakthroughs » Heart of Business — October 28, 2009 @ 5:55 am

106. 

     James Ray may be all of the above (posts). What he is not, is wise. To paraphrase Lao Tse: 'A wise man when he makes a mistake, realizes it. Having realized it, he admits it. Having admitted it, he corrects it. He considers those who point out his faults as his most benevolent teachers. He thinks of his enemy as the shadow that he himself casts.' I make the judgment that Ray lacks wisdom for additional reasons. I have been attending Sweat Lodge ceremonies (I use the common parlance, though it is a misnomer) since 1978. I have conducted over 1000 of them myself. I attend these ceremonies on average twice a week. I judge Mr. Ray because I know he was gaming this ceremony. He played with principles and primal forces of nature as though they were obstacles on an adventure. From the pictures I could see no altar. The altar between the fire and the lodge is the filter that screens or protects us from the dark forces. I have never been to a lodge that did not have an altar. That's what I look for. That's how I decide whether to attend or not I look for traditional instruments. The altars of true medicine men are incredibly simple and understated. The altars of faux medicine men are puffed up and fatuous. The altars of new age shamans are often cluttered with every eclectic indigenous toy south of Nome. I eschew new age gibberish. If Ray had no altar, then his audacity and arrogance in this regard would lead me to conclude that he was gaming natural law and is deluded. If he did have an altar (again, I didn't see one and the remnants would have, I think, been obvious,) then it did not filter out the Shadow of Death, which leads me to conclude he was playing with faith, instead of praying with Faith. My prayer is that Mr. Ray step up and take responsibility for his actions. That would be wise.

     Comment by Glenn — October 29, 2009 @ 1:00 am

107. 

     I agree. His actions show his lack of wisdom.

     Comment by Duff McDuffee — October 29, 2009 @ 1:10 am

108. 

     As James Ray states, if you are not growing and learning then you are dying.
     I am fed up people saying that the people who died are responsible for their own deaths. This is totally unfair and more new age talk that shows no empathy or respect for those who lost their lives or their grieving families.
     The people who died were already good people. They had a good life and they went with the promise that they could have more…..and they put their faith in James. James didn't share any of his own wisdom, he robbed from the First Nations and took their ceremonies and desecrated them. Many of the new age healers are no better than others who have come before them robbing and theiving. It is sad. I have been a new ager for most of my life but recently been confronted with the fact that many of these so called healers are the false Gods that will appear to us in the form of the positive(God) but are really the negative or Satan. Satan = Narcissism

     Comment by Vera — October 29, 2009 @ 8:16 am

109. 

     Narcissistic people are perfectionistic, despise weakness (poverty) and show no empathy. They move on quickly to their next victims to steal their energy. They show no remorse and can be very convincing of their God like ways and charm many people. Look it up on the internet and you will find that many of our leaders today possess this narcissistic personality disorder. We all have some degree of narcissism and some is even healthy but, many who are suffering from this personality are in a world of their own and if they are confronted with any opposition or adversity they run away. Then never own up to what they have done!!!

     Comment by vera — October 29, 2009 @ 8:17 am

110. 

     This is a great piece about a very sad situation. I got to meet James Ray on a flight several months ago, and I found him to be very accesable and very deep – and we got into some comments about Judaism and the Holocaust – and as someone who comes from that world – I found the discussion refreshing in that it went beyond the victim mode of my own people. I hope he takes some accountability, even seppuku as you suggest. I talk about in my blog today how, while I love sweatlodges, there is nothing that will sweat out your insides and your heart like being in a committed relationship.
     Michael Sherman – blog: http://tinyurl.com/yfzy4ho

     Comment by courageouslover — November 3, 2009 @ 5:38 am

111. 

     Thanks Michael. It's hard for me to tell personally what this man's motives were. The more I hear about the insider reports, the more it looks like coercive persuasion. And Ray doesn't seem to be taking any warrior-like action from what I can see. I even confronted him with a friend and asked him whether he had blocked the door to the sweat lodge in a Denver free evening event after the deadly sweat lodge and he didn't respond, but simply had us escorted out and continued with his program.

     I do think good can come from any difficult or terrible event like the Holocaust, but I also think there is a right time to see the good, which for me comes with grieving and seeking justice. Ray's PR campaign seems to be ignoring his own culpability by distracting with rhetoric of the positive spiritual purpose of this event. Personally, I think one positive spiritual purpose is to highlight such abuses of power in spiritual and personal development communities and workshops.

     Comment by Duff McDuffee — November 3, 2009 @ 6:23 pm

112. 

     Hi – thanks for your response. I totally agree with you about taking a look at the power that is presented from the stage at personal growth events. I do get a lot of value from these events, and they can serve a need. People are vulnerable and they don't know where to go. The failure, in my eyes, is that having been to a lot of these – trainers talk a lot about how this kind of breakthrough work can affect your relationships. While I've seen that to some degree in folks who I have followed at these kinds of events, I think this is really the fatal flaw of this work. Let people have an experience – sky diving, breaking boards, sweatlodges, whatever —- but then teach them how to be contribute to the people in their lives. Teach them how to be vulnerable with their words and their presence. You don't need 120 degree heat to do that. Feelings are hot enough.
     Thanks – Michael Sherman – http://www.CourageousLovingNation.com
     />

     Michael Sherman, MA, Imago Educator
     Writer and Teacher
     http://www.CourageousLoving.com
     />michael@courageousloving.com
     (845) 653-1097

     —

     Comment by courageouslover — November 3, 2009 @ 6:46 pm

113. 

     Hi – thanks for your response. I totally agree with you about taking a look at the power that is presented from the stage at personal growth events. I do get a lot of value from these events, and they can serve a need. People are vulnerable and they don't know where to go. The failure, in my eyes, is that having been to a lot of these – trainers talk a lot about how this kind of breakthrough work can affect your relationships. While I've seen that to some degree in folks who I have followed at these kinds of events, I think this is really the fatal flaw of this work. Let people have an experience – sky diving, breaking boards, sweatlodges, whatever —- but then teach them how to be contribute to the people in their lives. Teach them how to be vulnerable with their words and their presence. You don't need 120 degree heat to do that. Feelings are hot enough.
     Thanks – Michael Sherman – http://www.CourageousLovingNation.com
     />

     Michael Sherman, MA, Imago Educator
     Writer and Teacher
     http://www.CourageousLoving.com
     />michael@courageousloving.com
     (845) 653-1097

     —

     Comment by courageouslover — November 3, 2009 @ 6:46 pm

114. 

     Totally agree. I have had more than enough breakthroughs to see that they are usually short-term. Long-term relationships, with intimate partners and even yourself, are where sustainable growth are found.

     Comment by Duff McDuffee — November 3, 2009 @ 6:53 pm

115. 

     I agree. In the vast media pigpile caused by this, many comments seem to be throwing out the baby (loa) with the bath water (sweat lodge).

     In interviews about the traits, beliefs, habits of succesful people, time after time they shake out like what many teachers define for the law of attraction.

     So, if this is all frauds and hoax, some of the worlds most successful people have benefited from being hoaxed…immensely.

     NOT

     Listen to Joel Osteen any Sunday, law of attraction all over again.

     Comment by steve — November 3, 2009 @ 9:15 pm

116. [...] sweat lodge ceremony left three of his followers dead.  McDuffee wrote two excellent posts following the incident, and him and Theo have since gone on to face Ray personally at his event in [...]

     Pingback by Synthesization of Money and Mind | Beyond Growth — November 3, 2009 @ 3:27 pm

117. 

     this was most likely not a sweatlodge,maybe a image of one but not a real ceremony.i have been in many sweatlodges never did i encounter or see such a thing.too bad theres people out there hurting people for money.this article is the first that i have heard of warriors raping woman.i have heard of non native men killing and raping children and woman .especially what the first nation children went through the boarding schools,sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Comment by browneyedgurl — November 4, 2009 @ 5:28 am

118. 

     There is a 1 hour interview he did with Barry Goss & Heather Vale where you could hear extensively about the law of attraction from James Ray.

     This story has caused a media pigpile on the subject which has totally merged the very bad idea of a sweat lodge in that fashion and the law of attraction.

     Sad to see.

     Comment by steve — November 4, 2009 @ 6:06 pm

119. 

     My heart goes out to the families of the victims and also all the excellent mentors out there whose teachings about loa are being painted with the same brush as the sweat lodge story.

     A sad example of throwing the baby (loa) out with the bath water (sweat lodge tragedy)

     Comment by steve — November 4, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

120. 

     This tragic event should never have happened. James Ray should have stuck to his fine metoring lectures like fellow teachers Randy Gage and Dov Baron.
     Sadly, the tragic unstudied version of the fine native american traditions is what was wrong, not the law of attraction.
     The media has now caused a pigpile of people upon the entire self-development arena by people, may of whom, couldn't tell you one sentence about the law of attraction.
     Joel Osteen delivers the same message every Sunday to a totally filled compaq center, is this all a giant fraud ?

     Comment by steve — November 7, 2009 @ 2:34 pm

121. 

     I can easily see how this whole thing can make people think the LoA is fake but… what happened has actually nothing to do with the validity of the loa! LoA never states that bad things can't happen and if a bad thing happened to a LoA teacher, then… yes! he did attract it on his way to reaching whatever goals he has. Maybe one of Ray's goals is to be a highly spiritual being and the universe seeing his greediness and love for money does… bahm! something that will cut all his income sources. You can bet this is something that made Ray think realllll hard how and why he attracted it.

     But we should NOT talk only about him. Focusing only on him means we are claiming him to be more important than the rest of the people there. In a situation everybody is a co-creator. You can't say that Ray attracted this to those people without them having anything to do with it. I've written this before on this site, but… how much do you need to hate yourself or to not believe in yourself to let yourself die… Think about that…

     I am deeply sorry for the pain that is rippling from this event. Let all of us get responsible for the way we live our lives!

     Comment by Yana — November 9, 2009 @ 7:58 pm

122. 

     Hi Vera, Nobody is disrespecting the lives of those people. I am sure they were good people and I can't imagine the pain, frustration and helplessness of their families. But taking the power out of them by not making them responsible for their lives is also disrespectful. Every single person is a strong being that can control his/her life. Whatever happened, very tragic indeed, was because of a choice they made – they choose to trust Ray and they went to his seminar. Call it the law of attraction, call it destiny, call it the right of choice God gave us but don't call it mere coincidence as that rips them off their power. What is left for us now is to touch on our beliefs for the life after this life and let's hope that those people are in the good place they were aiming at and not just helpless victims of a ruthless man.

     And before you tear me piece by piece , I will say that I am also very full of anger right now, as to me it seems that Ray acted extremely irresponsible, greedy and yes, very narcissistic. I am very sorry that this thing happened, that he is so enchanting that people chose to strip off their power and put their lives in his hands and that he failed them.

     And one more note. You should follow what your heart tells you. But please don't cut yourself from searching for your answers because of the so many thirsty for money "teachers" out there. You know that it is most dark just before dawn, so be not surprised by all those 'satan's as you call them. They too have their divine role in this game. We can't see the light without having the dark.

     Let us allow everybody to follow their own path as they find best for them and us work on us and our own growth, as we see it.

     Much love, Yana

     Comment by Yana — November 9, 2009 @ 8:20 pm

123. 

     James Ray is NOT a Witch nor a Warlock.
     He is a manipulative asshole and far too greedy for anyone's taste!

     Karma is a bitch!
     And right now James Ray's karma is the biggest bitch of all… to him anyway.

     People should be kind and good, naturally, and not use money as a means to be good.
     His time is up and he will never ever manipulate anyone else again.

     Like I said, Karma is a bitch, but in this case, it is a beautiful and well deserved bitch!

     Comment by Teresa Da Silva — November 10, 2009 @ 11:44 pm

124. [...] Like organized religion, spiritual people can use the core teachings of their particular tradition or beliefs to avoid everyday challenges in life. Likewise, these same people can use spiritual teachings to fortify their ego, get praise, attention, and even material wealth. Take the latest example of James Arthur Ray, whose spiritual warrior retreat left three people dead. [...]

     Pingback by Spirituality « Good Men Project — November 19, 2009 @ 5:59 am

125. 

     I think that when this whole thing is over and all the facts come out, any rational person will con clude that ALL "spiritual" teachers or personal development gurus are bad, and should be avoided, that James Arthur Ray specifically is a greedy, evil person and that the Law of Attraction and The Secret are total bullshit. It's time for this country to become both scientifically and culturally literate. There should be courses in elementary school that teach critical thinking so no one ever puts up a blog of such ridiculous apologetics for obvious frauds, hucksters and flim flam artists. This country can't survive the soma of pseudo-science and irrationality that is so chic among those who see themselves as "spiritual" but not religious. Whoever wrote this would have done better to spend time with a basic logic course and familiarizing himself with the scientific method. It also wouldn't have hurt him to investigate the perspective of indigenous Americans, rather than assuming that he knows all about all warrior "paradigms". I'm sure James Ray's PR team will find a way to use this type of irrational blathering to their advantage.

     Comment by Jaime — November 30, 2009 @ 9:26 am

126. 

     Hi Jamie, thanks for your comment.

     I got a 110% in Symbolic Logic as part of my Philosophy degree (without studying!), and did quite well in Philosophy of Science as well. I am well-versed in and a strong advocate of critical thinking.

     This post was written one day after the death lodge news came out, and was not intended as an apology for James Arthur Ray's huckerism, but to frame him as needing to take responsibility even from his own perspective. I was anticipating a response from the LoA crowd that would blame the victims for "attracting" their deaths and injuries, and attempting to reframe the attraction argument to show that James Ray attracted these results and therefore is morally and ethically culpable.

     There is a world of difference between such professional scam artists as James Arthur Ray and wise and compassionate spiritual and religious teachers like Jack Kornfield, Pema Chodron, A.H. Almaas, etc.

     Bradford Keeney says to be interested in spirituality but not religion is like saying you are hungry but don't like to eat. I think folks like Ray and his Secret buddies are serving up zero-nutrition spiritual junk food.

     Comment by Duff McDuffee — November 30, 2009 @ 5:04 pm

127. 

     "Bradford Keeney says to be interested in spirituality but not religion is like saying you are hungry but don't like to eat. I think folks like Ray and his Secret buddies are serving up zero-nutrition spiritual junk food."

     Nice.

     Comment by Ian — November 30, 2009 @ 6:05 pm

128. 

     Calling this guy a megician is trying to make light of what he really is.
     Remember magicians are performers, they do tricks, magic is not real?
     You guys are just sheep.

     Comment by Gearheart — December 9, 2009 @ 8:18 am

129. 

     Good writing there, Duff. But you over look James' definition of Warrior as "one who conquers onself". That, in my mind is what Spiritual Warrior was all about. I do believe James is ultimately responsible, but let's not negate the personal responsibility of the participants. It's not a good idea to give over your personal power to anyone, even a James Ray. It's a very sad thing, what happened, and the last person to die in the hosptial was a personal friend of mine for over 10 years. But lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and I hope all the good James has done, the transformation of so many people's lives, is remembered and balanced against this tragedy. Liz would want that, too.

     Comment by mwoo — December 16, 2009 @ 8:14 pm

130. 

     This is a great way of eliminating liberal democrats. Keep up the good work.

     Comment by bob — December 28, 2009 @ 10:08 pm

131. 

     I have been researching law of attraction for a while now, ever since I watched the movie the secret. While many people think of the law of attraction as auto-suggestion, I have found also experimental researching which explains this theory. Lets remember that 400 years ago (according to science) the earth was flat, and anyone who thought else was a accused of witchery.

     I believe that James Arthur Ray, simply deviated from the whole point of law of attraction. Law of attraction, lay of attraction doesn't need any fancy ritual in orther for it to work and achieve results, lets not forget it is always working as it is (to my opinion and many others) a physical law.

     Its not fair to condemn the whole theory just because this guy deviated and corrupted himself so much with marketing schemes that finally took the lives of others.

     Comment by Manu — December 30, 2009 @ 9:33 pm

132. 

     as a music teacher myself when someone is in my studio i am responsible for their welfare. if they pass out i call an ambulance… if they hurt i do not say keep doing it, it will pass.
     this is how people get injured… sometimes for life… because of trying to "do it right", "not be a quitter", etc… missing the point that growth is different for different people and thier physical and mental conditions MUST BE ACKLNOWLEDGED.
     i have contact information on ALL of my students.
     I hade liked what James Arthur Ray was saying but totally think this is the HEIGHT OF NEGLECT and not serving the students. they trust you with themselves and that you, as a teacher and mentor, are there to guide them in THEIR best interests… not yours.

     Comment by millie martin — December 30, 2009 @ 5:17 pm

133. 

     This man is a crook who took thousands of dollars from people and in exchange didnt even bother to learn about the health and safety regulations/reccomendations/common sense for his own facilities. Let's see if his "magick" can keep him out of jail on manslaughter charges. I for one, hope not.

     Comment by realist — January 5, 2010 @ 11:00 pm

134. 

     Is Mr. Ray a federally recognized American Native Person, belonging to a federally recognized tribe? Or is Mr. Ray a bona fide member of the Native American Church?

     If the answer to both of these questions is no, Mr. Ray must be found guilty of ‘Constructive Manslaughter’. If the answer is yes to either one of these questions, Mr. Ray must be fully and totally exonerated from any criminal charges. Members of federally recognized tribes and / or the Native American Church are protected, under the First Amendment and the American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA).

     Conducting an American Native Ceremony, by federal law is a felony rather it is a Sacrament (Peyote), Sweat Lodge and etc ceremonies.

     Because these ceremonies are so very transforming and that there is a substantial degree of danger to the participants especially the Sweat Lodge, the United Sates Government states very clearly in the wording of AIRFA that these ceremonies are to be conducted by members of a Federally Recognized American Native Tribe and / or a Native American Church Spiritual Leader. It is demanded, within these American Native communities, that Leadership of these ceremonies are to have American Native hereditary training to conduct said ceremonies. This training entails a variety of American Native ancient traditions, designed over thousands of years to protect participants from such travesties that occurred in Arizona.

     A historical pre-requisite to conducting an American Native Spiritual Ceremony is first and foremost the spirit of service, in which, more than often, the spiritual leader has taken a vow of poverty.

     It is vitally important for the sanctity of American Native Spirituality that these ancient ceremonies, for the public’s safety, are to be respected and honored by being conducted in accordance with federal laws.

     Comment by JamesWFE — February 5, 2010 @ 10:02 pm

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